Your Patients’ Hidden Gum Score (E.303)

“You are running a chronic oral wound care center out of your operatories.” 

– Dr. Tanya Dunlap

Overview

What if your patients understood gum disease the same way they understand blood pressure or cholesterol? In this episode, Dr. Tanya Dunlap shares the groundbreaking concept of the “Gum Score” and how a simple number can empower patients to take periodontal health seriously. From FDA-cleared Perio Protect trays to systemic health connections like diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and dementia, this discussion reframes gum health as a cornerstone of total wellness.

What This Episode Reveals

• Why nearly half of U.S. adults over 30 already show bone loss
• How untreated gum infections fuel systemic disease
• Why flossing and brushing aren’t enough for biofilm control
• The story behind Perio Protect and its unique FDA-cleared tray system

What You’ll Learn

• How to explain gum health to patients with clarity and impact
• The “Gum Score” framework: a simple way to make periodontal health tangible
• How to position adjunctive care as essential, not optional
• The future of preventative care through environmental change, not antibiotics

If This Sounds Familiar

• Patients don’t take gum bleeding seriously
• Your team struggles to explain periodontal disease without overwhelming patients
• You’re looking for practical tools to improve case acceptance

Next Steps

Don’t miss Dr. Dunlap’s upcoming mastermind with the Clinical Calibration Institute on September 30th at 1 pm EST. Register at clinicalcalibration.com to join the conversation.

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Regan Robertson: Listeners, doctors, hygienists, assistants, what would happen? Close your eyes with me for a quick second here. Imagine what it would be like if your patients could easily understand their periodontal health just as easily as you understand your blood pressure or your cholesterol score. That would personally blow my mind. You know, I’ve been in dentistry for, uh, a decade and a half and I am still learning new things every day, and one of my favorite things about our upcoming guest is, you know how much I love to bring you really high quality people that are passionate about solving a problem, and on Everyday Practices today we have Dr. Tanya Dunlap. She is the Vice President of Perio Protect, uh, which I think you’ve been at since 2005. 

[00:00:51] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Yeah, 20 years now. 

[00:00:52] Regan Robertson: 20 years now. So you’re well in the passion category, you know what you’re talking about, and I cannot wait to jump in and really discuss the benefits of, uh, the health benefits of it, but also, you know, the overall wellbeing benefits of what it means to be able to connect with our patients and communicate in a way that does that aha, I understand that this is important and that there is a solution to it. 

[00:01:18] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Right. 

[00:01:18] Regan Robertson: So could you tell us a little bit about your background and, and what, why, why periodontal health? 

[00:01:25] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Well, this was not an anticipated, uh, career path, um, and it’s a long story, but I will say one of the things that really made it possible for me to understand better the everyday, I’m not a dentist, right? I’m a PhD. So just that everyday clinical experience was working on controlled clinical trials, testing Perio Protect as an adjunct to scaling versus scaling alone and really kind of getting into the nitty gritty of clinical trial design. I was the, um, research liaison for the company. There was independent contractors for studies and independent statisticians, and we had a periodontist on the team also for, for consults, um, it was a really good time and fun to, to kind of be part of this team and to see what they were doing. So that’s where I got my chops and that’s how I really became the go-to person to understand what Perio Protect is, and if you are listening and you don’t know what Perio Protect is, it’s an adjunct home care, um, it’s a tray that is cleared by the food and drug administration to liver medication really deep below the gum line, and when we say really deep, we mean up to nine millimeters. So it is great for patients who’ve got, you know, shallow pockets and gingivitis and chronic inflammation. It is excellent for patients who need really complex treatment plans and you wanna maintain them better at home between office visits. That’s what we’re about, reducing the infection, the inflammation, even reducing pocket depths, um, between office visits and you just use this tray, it’s custom a, it’s got an internal peripheral seal so that your medication doesn’t leak out and you just wear it 10 to 15 minutes at a time. The primary antimicrobial. It’s kind of a fun story. Do you wanna hear it? 

[00:03:10] Regan Robertson: I do wanna hear it. 

[00:03:12] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Okay. So I know all about this ’cause my father was the person who created this, uh, medical device and so I was in the background as he was working on this for longer than the company was around. 

[00:03:25] Regan Robertson: And your father is a dentist? Is that? 

[00:03:27] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: He’s a dentist, that’s right. Yep. His name is Dwayne Kel, and he created this tray initially for his mother. She ended up needing periodontal surgery. She was an advanced, um, case, and so, you know, sent her out for surgery. She comes back, he says, “You look great. We’re ready for the next one.” She said, “Oh, we’re not ready. I’m not doing it. You gotta find another way because I’m, I’m not gonna go.” This was before lasers, before GBT, before all the easier things, and so he, uh, he, she looked at him and she said, “I promise you. I will do whatever you wanna try and, and we’ll come back and we’ll see if it works, but you’ve got to find some other way, and it it, to be clear, not everybody can avoid surgery. You have deep vertical defects, you have ulous tissue down there, doesn’t respond to anything topical. Your scaling’s not gonna touch it.” Lasers would be helpful, um, but sometimes you need surgery in her case because she wouldn’t do it, um, he created a variety of. Delivery methods to get the medication deep below the gums, and originally he was trying to use tetracycline because it was an bacterial-based infection, right? Everybody knows antibiotics are these wonder drugs against bacterial-based infections, but it was the design of the tray that was the first part, and that took a long time to figure out, because if you just use a vacuum form tray, it leaks out and it doesn’t get deep enough, and so he figured out how to create this custom seal, and there there’s some, uh, real crafting to that. Then within that sealed system, so the seal, there’s a seal all the way around the internal peripheral edge and a short extension, and that works like a gasket, prevents the medication from leaking out. He added, at the time, hydrogen peroxide a gel because he wanted what he called the propulsion agent to see. This is back in the experimental days before it even went to FDA, um, and ex to seek how deep they could get it, right? Yeah. I mean this was, he was just. Trying to solve a problem for his mom and his other patients, and he started to get really good results. He got it cleared through the Food and Drug Administration, so now it is a prescription medical device. So it, it applies to HSAs and FSAs and all the things that, and he can legally take it to market at the time. So he’s talking to a patient one day and he says this, “You are doing great, excellent job at home. Just keep it up,” and she said. “Do I need that liquid medication anymore?” And he said, he kind of stopped and he said, “Um, the liquid was the antibiotic. How long haven’t you had it?” “Oh, I’ve been without that for weeks, maybe months,” and then he realized it wasn’t the antibiotic, it was the hydrogen peroxide that was actually the beneficial therapeutic agent. So then he like scraps everything, goes back to the drawing board, goes back to the literature, and starts investigating how can this be? And it turns out hydrogen peroxide and the primary antimicrobial that we’ve tested all these years and recommend is just 1.7% hydrogen peroxide. So it lightens your teeth but not, not, it’s not like a Wow. Overnight. I need side on it. It is, yeah. Yeah, it is, but it does two things. It debrides bacteria and so every time you use this tray, the tray pushes them, the tray’s just a delivery device. It pushes medication deep it you peel off another layer of cells, just like if you had an onion and there were layers, you peel it off, but what’s really important is as it’s bubbling up, you know, like if you have a brown, if you have brown bottle peroxide and you have a cut on your hand and you pour it, what happens, Regan? 

[00:06:56] Regan Robertson: Yeah, it does. It bubble. It rises up. 

[00:06:58] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: I know, right? Exactly, and it’s almost foamy sometimes, depending on how big your cut is. This gel’s very different. What’s happening when it’s bubbling up? It’s releasing oxygen because your hydrogen peroxide is turning into oxygen and water. Now when you have, yeah, yeah. When you, when you have a cut on your hand and you put a little bit of perio gel on it. It doesn’t foam. It’s a very different formulation. It has a slow, constant release of the oxygen and water instead of that kind of explosive. Yep, and what that means clinically is you’re getting a consistent release of oxygen. So this matters when you are trying to treat the bacterial-based infections below the gums, because the deeper you get in the pocket, the less oxygen there is, and then you have Ana, an anaerobic bacteria, specifically gram-negative oblig, anaerobics, proliferating. So when this tray can deliver the medication, then the oxygen really deep. You change the environment and that is the, the way you are really able to get this long-term health and healing because when you put oxygen down deep, it’s toxic to your gram-negative robes, but it also creates the right condition for healthy bacteria to repopulate, and that’s what we want. 

[00:08:10] Regan Robertson: No way. Okay. So are antibiotics still used today as part of that decision process? 

[00:08:16] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Yes. Okay. Antibiotics are still used today and they can be helpful. They could be taken systemically and sometimes they’re applied locally and sometimes they, they do have a positive effect. The problem is, is they wear off and the bacteria tend to repopulate, and patients rightly so, cannot, they can’t. They just physically can’t clean deep below their gums at home. So we often wanna blame patients as professionals, right? They’re not doing what they’re supposed to do, and most of them aren’t flossing, most of ’em aren’t, and if, if they are, they don’t have great technique but floss is gonna have better plaque control for cariology than it will better biofilm control for gingivitis or periodontitis Your toothbrush, rinse and floss, can’t get deep enough. That is why you need 

[00:09:03] Regan Robertson: Well, yeah, and it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t make sense to just take antibiotics. You’ve got resistance, you know, or, or allergies. Uh, that’s right. Then if you’re, you know, then, then you’re out completely with that. Uh, I, but I have an ignorant question for you. I love very much how you are really clinically nerding out. So if you’re listening right now as a doctor or clinical, this probably makes a lot of sense to you. To me, this is all very new from the clinical aspect, so. It’s also exciting. So if you are a patient that is, um, maybe in the gingivitis stage, is it something that you continue, like you have this tray and you just continue it, like as a preventative for the rest of your life? Or do you use it sporadically when things pop up? How does it, how, how does that conversation come about with the patients? 

[00:09:47] Dr. Tanya Dunlap:  Yeah,so ideally you’re gonna be using it. For life. I personally think it’s as important as a toothbrush. I’ve been using it almost every day for 20 years. Mm-hmm. Some people stop for a while, the bleeding comes back, they start using their trays again but the ideal situation is we get you healthy and we keep you healthy. Yeah, and the disease goes into remission, and if, I mean, let’s just look at the stats. 47% of American adults over the age of 30, they’re young, have already lost bone. They have chronic periodontitis 

[00:10:18] Regan Robertson: Over 30. 

[00:10:19] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Over the age of 30, by the time we are 65, 70% of US adults have lost bone ’cause of the infections.

[00:10:28] Regan Robertson: When did this, when, so Perio Protect has been around since when? 

[00:10:32] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: 2005. Yeah. 

[00:10:34] Regan Robertson: So this is a, to me, this is a travesty. Like that’s ridiculous. That number is ridiculous. 

[00:10:40] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It is, and the reason it can get outta control like this is because this is a disease that doesn’t hurt and that we haven’t taken so seriously because it’s just a little bleeding. Yeah, and you don’t see it. You might see it when you brush your teeth, but most of the time you’re swallowing all of this and you have this chronic infection in your gums and it’s very common, but it’s not healthy, and so you asked at the beginning of this show. How do we, how do we distill this down so patients can understand it? Right. Well, let’s talk first about how important it’s, if you leave these chronic infections untreated in gingivitis or periodontitis stages, it makes it much harder for a type two diabetic to manage blood sugar. It can, 

[00:11:18] Regan Robertson: That blows my mind. Keep going. I just thought, I, I heard that the other day and I was like, wait a minute, back up, like, these are discussions I don’t think we’re having, um, in a clinical setting as much as we should. 

[00:11:30] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: And we, and we need you. You hit it on the head when you open. We need ways to do it quickly and to be able to capture their attention and do it in ways people can understand but it, if you have cardiovascular disease in your family or you personally have high blood pressure, this chronic infection in your gum can actually trigger arterial inflammation. It contributes to the progression, not cause yet, but progression of dementia and Alzheimer’s. There are some cancers that are associated with, I mean, there’s just so many things. So if you had a, even if you had a chronically infected fingernail, it would bug you. You would, you would want to do something about that.

[00:12:06] Regan Robertson: Right. Yeah. There, there have been like these cornerstone moments in my life where a clinician will explain something to me and I clock it like it makes sense, and one I don’t remember, so I can’t attribute Maybe Michelle Hudson. Yeah. Want, there was a clinician that said if you have a bleeder, even one. It’s not just a bleeder, treat it like an open wound if you had That’s exactly right. Okay. That like, clicked in my head and I realized, ’cause I have heard, I’ve heard that oh, it’s just a, you know, you just got a bleed one bleeder and, and you just roll over it. Not knocking my own clinical team, but I mean, I, I can see how it can get glossed over so easily and we don’t take it seriously. Right. 

[00:12:49] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It’s easy to, to not take it serious, and, and I like to throw up these pictures on a big screen of gingivitis and periodontitis and say, “What do you all see?” And then they’ll, they’ll describe all the things they see clinically, and I’ll say, “We also see chronic oral wounds. You are practicing everyone listening in dentistry, you are practicing chronic oral wound care.” When you treat patients with gingivitis and periodontitis, you are running a chronic oral wound care center out of your operatories. 

[00:13:17] Regan Robertson: That sounds disgusting. It’s, I mean, it does a chronic open wound. 

[00:13:23] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It is. It’s chronically infected. It’s a chronic burden on the immune system. It might be low grade, but look, your immune system is like a battery. There’s only so many things that can be hooked up to it before it’s power fades. So you can do something about these infections in your gums, right. Let’s unplug that chronic source of infection and let your body focus on other areas. 

[00:13:44] Regan Robertson: This reminds me a lot of the, uh, the heart attack gene by Dr. Yes. Pasley Bale and Amy Jonin. I think that was maybe like 2016 or 2017 my eyes were opened up into what chronic inflammation can do, and then it was still several years before I was able to go through my own health journey and understand, um, my own health from a systemic point of view. Uh, what are you, I, I’m very curious, what does the, um, adoption rate look like for those who are putting Perio Protect in, in the practice? And what sort of objections do you hear  because it’s easy. It’s easy for me, or it’s easy for you, especially since you’ve been in Perio Protect to say, oh yeah, this is a no-brainer. Like this is, this is, of course we should have this. What are some of the things that you’ve heard that make people say, ah, you know, I don’t know, they don’t need it ,or like, you had me there with the slow release. Uh, because I have heard, uh, and again, I don’t remember where, but I have heard like if you just take some hydrogen peroxide and put one of those little Christmas tree-looking flossy things and just go between your teeth. Yeah, I’ve heard that. So like, does that, like, that wouldn’t be the same because that’s an instant release versus a slow release. So that’s right,maybe be my eyes and ears. What have you heard over, over your, you know, years with Perio Protect and, and some of the objections? 

[00:15:02] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Right. Well, for some, some patients, exactly say, why can’t I just use a rinse? Why can’t I just rinse? Why can’t I put hydrogen peroxide in my water flosser or put some gel on there, inter interproximal brush and brush, um, so the number one problem with a rinse is that it just doesn’t get deep enough. Your interproximal flosser would get deeper than a rinse. Yeah, but it still needs contact time. So this is the part about hydrogen peroxide. It has to be held in place long enough to be effective, and I can’t speak about other formulations, but the, the gel that we have tested in, in the perio tray needs 10 minutes of contact time in order to, so a little bit. Your bacteria live in a living film, a biofilm, and there’s could be hundreds of different species in there, and they’re all communicating, and what one bacterial, um, species is producing as a byproduct, another one uses as a food source. It’s totally fascinating and complicated. It’s covered in a layer of slime. They call that a matrix. You need time to be able to cut through the matrix. Antibiotics can’t do it. Well, this is why when you place an antibiotic, you do it when you do scaling because an antibiotic can’t cut through that layer of slime. Well, chlorine-based products and peroxide-based products can, but it takes a little time. We need 10 minutes to be able to cut through the matrix, the slime, and then penetrate the bacterial cell walls of, and you’re just doing the exposed surface layer. We want you to wear the tray for 15 minutes because then you get almost all the oxygen benefits. You can go longer. It doesn’t help you, but you need at least 10 minutes. So most people are like, “Am I gonna have to do this for the rest of my life?” And I, and I say, that’s another objection. I say, “You get to, this is a way, it’s,” 

[00:16:44] Regan Robertson: Not that long. 

[00:16:46] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: So you tie it to something you do. If you ever, um, read Atomic Habits. 

[00:16:50] Regan Robertson: Oh, yes. I love Atomic Habits. Oh, how you stacking? Let’s have it stack this. 

[00:16:57] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: That’s right. You’re gonna stack your habits. Exactly right. 

 So I, you know, I tend to wear my trays in the morning when I’m getting ready. Some people are really ritualistic about that. Every shower before you shave and shower, if you’re a guy, um, I’ve, I have a new puppy. I’ve been wearing my trays while I’m walking this dog. Uh, you know, there’s all these di different things you can do to stack the habits and make sure you do it, and the thing about Perver Protect is that there is a level of clean you didn’t know you could get to, and if you do, you use this for a while and your mouth feels, this is what patients say. They’ll say, “My mouth just feels so clean and my breath is so fresh,” which is all true. I personally think the fresh breath is nicer than whiter teeth, uh, ’cause you know, with this, you don’t even wake up with morning breath. Those of you who are part of the profession and you take great care of your mouths. I know you do. You won’t even wake up with morning breath. But, um, 

[00:17:45] Regan Robertson: But if somebody, but from a patient perspective, if somebody told me, do this 15 minutes and you’re gonna wake up without morning breath. 

[00:17:53] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: You can. 

[00:17:54] Regan Robertson: That’s the 

 best marketing campaign I can think of. 

[00:17:56] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: You can, yeah. We say you can get closer to the ones you love ’cause sometimes you can smell people before you can see ’em. Right? Like they, right. 

[00:18:03] Regan Robertson: Yeah. I’ve not known, like I didn’t know before, uh, joining dentistry what it was, but they’re, yeah. I’ve, I’ve been, and you, you can almost smell them coming towards you and then you have to be around it and it’s, it’s painful and it’s uncomfortable.

[00:18:15] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It’s uncomfortable for everybody. Like if you’re on an airplane and you know what that is, you Yeah, yeah. It’s, I, I have to stop myself from telling, talking about it on an airplane because I know there’s a really good solution, um, so I think for patients, when they find out how comfortable it is, how easy it is to use the side effects, you know, you can drink as much red wine and coffee as you like, and you are gonna have really white teeth. You just do it 10 to 15 minutes a day, um, but the rinse doesn’t get deep enough. I think from the professional side, what most people are concerned about is if we put patients in Perio Protect and then they need restorative work down the line, what happens or if a patient has really serious perio but also has restorative needs, what do we do first? And so we just talk through those different scenarios with people to help them understand, but 

[00:19:02] Regan Robertson: You want it not to be bleeding first, I would assume. 

[00:19:05] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: And, you know, sometimes you end up with really complicated situations, but best-case scenario, you get the Perio Foundation, but you also want to address those restorations too, and, and people have limited money. So how do you figure that part out? And so we often work as like an office consultant, um, we’ve been doing this for a long time. We have treatment protocols, we have, um, experts you can talk to, periodontists too, that will also weigh in, um, and so we do as much as we can to be helpful.

[00:19:33] Regan Robertson: Is this, is this a product that is direct to consumer or only through dental practices? 

[00:19:38] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It’s only through the dental practice. So that trade is, um, cleared by FDA as a prescription medical device, so it does require that comes through the dental office. Then they get it ’cause it’s made specifically for them, and some docs will, 

[00:19:52] Regan Robertson: Consumers could be educated and drive this, because I think if consumers really new, um, preventative health, you know, is such a, it’s not just a hot, trendy topic. It’s such a critical topic right now, and healthcare in America has, is just, um, feels like it’s on fire in so many ways. There was one thing I don’t wanna gloss over here that you said that was highly intriguing to me and that’s that it gets in and gets the bad stuff, but it does not, uh, not only does it not harm the good, but it allows an environment for the good bacteria to thrive, and I know with antibiotic, I mean, imagine, I don’t know if you’re working on this, but what if we were able to do this at a gut level, 

[00:20:27] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Right? Yes. The gut is totally. The next frontier. Everybody’s looking at it, right? Leaky gut. 

[00:20:37] Regan Robertson: I hope everybody’s looking at it because a lot of people sleep just sits in your gut, right? 

[00:20:38] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: I  mean, yeah. 

[00:20:39] Regan Robertson: Wow. Wow. So you, you, you do, so it, it does truly allow the good bacteria to thrive. 

[00:20:47] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: It does because you are adding this oxygen, you’re, it’s all about the environmental conditions. So you change the environment, you change the kind of bacteria that can thrive and look, we’re never gonna be able to get rid of all the bacteria and we don’t want to. You want a healthy microbial immunity that lives in a symbiotic relationship with the host. That’s what we’re after. 

[00:21:07] Regan Robertson: What are the doctors, uh, I want, I’m gonna give you a second to think about this. I don’t wanna put you on the spot, but, but the doctors that you’ve seen that have implemented this in, in practice, is there anyone that’s particularly memorable or you think is doing a really good job with this, explaining the benefits? 

[00:21:21] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: I am, and I do wanna get back to like the easy way to explain it to patients, but there are two or three that come really front to mind. Michelle IES in Jacksonville, Florida. Her office is so in tune to Perio Protect and the benefits and the patients talk to each other in the waiting room and say, “You don’t have that yet. You should totally get it. This is why. Then they come back and ask for it.” Right. That’s that’s exciting. We have another doc in Chicago, a team Dr. Joseph and Eileen Zel. They’re a terrific, um, team and their patients, they’re, they’re truly honing in on root cause, right, and making sure people understand this and really going above and beyond. So there are other drugs you can put in these trays. So the hydrogen peroxide is what everybody knows. It’s branded as Perio Gel, and it’s 1.7% hydrogen peroxide, low concentration, all the things we’ve talked about. There are other drugs you can put in there and they’ve documented bone stabilization and they’re now beta testing some medication that we are offering for, um, patients. They haven’t been para protect patients before, but they have such serious sensitivity that it’s miserable to come. So we’ve got this new option that it’s gonna be released here soon, um, that people can use to desensitize and it’s getting great, uh, patient reviews so, re, one of the best parts of my job, Regan, is getting to know these clinicians who care deeply about their patients and their teams. They want good culture in their office too, but really care deeply about their patients and they’re doing this for the right reason ’cause they want to end those chronic cycles of infection and inflammation, and as you mentioned, it is hard to talk to patients about that, right? Yeah. So we created, it’s taken me a while to do this. I have been, uh, doing market. I’ll call it market research, but really, um, focus groups since 2018, and I have been talking to people saying, how much bleeding is it okay to have in your mouth? Like, how many set? Because, well, you chart this, right? As a dental professional, you chart how deep their pockets are, whether they’re bleeding, clinical attachment loss, as often as you do that, okay? So let’s say your patient has 168 possible bleeding points, right? They, you don’t have wisdom teeth. You have a hundred sixty eight, six six per tooth. How many is it okay to have? Is it okay to have 30? Is it okay to have 16? Is it okay to have five? A lot of people wanna say zero, and I say, “Yes, that’s ideal.” Yeah, but I don’t think you’re gonna get every person to zero. We should try for it. We should. Yeah, um, zero would be the ideal, but, but what’s, you know, what’s healthy. No one knows. We don’t know. How can we?

[00:24:02] Regan Robertson: No, I think that the goal, the goal is to keep the inflammation as low as possible, so That’s right, and we know, I think we, I mean, I love how I say we know, I’ve been told and educated that hormones can change it. So if you have hormone fluctuations That’s right. That, that can change it, um, I mean, personally I know I’ve had a visit where I had bleeders and I was like devastated and then the next time I had none, and yeah, and it was, you know, the hormones changing can, can play a factor to it. So. I wonder if perhaps the right since nobody maybe has the term for what the right answer is, I think the right answer is zero, but maybe it’s, it’s a pattern over time. So making sure that people are getting in for their, you know, their annual That’s right. Don’t even get me started on who came up with six months and why they came up with six months. I, I, if I could see mine every month, I probably would, but that’s because I’m a weirdo. So my hygienist has an air, what is it? Air Max prophy or whatever. You even know what they have. Oh, she’s amazing. Yeah. So I, I, I know I’m an odd ball there, but it, I. I just am so pleased that you and Perio Protect, but you know, Kim Koch and all of the others in, in our world right now that are focusing on the systemic level of care and, and preventative health is just, I can’t say enough how, how much it means, um, you know, to, to our world and our future generation. So if we, if we also set the expectation that, you know, zero is where you want to be at, that starts to, you know, you can reinforce that stat over time. 

[00:25:34] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: And you need to be able to do that quickly because it is hard to get people’s attention. So what we ended up doing, and I wanna be clear here as I don’t wanna be dismissive, um, the a a P has set up 10% or less of your sites are considered healthy, right? You want a zero of the, or there’s a standard, there’s a professional standard. Yeah, but when you talk to patients, you’re like, “Well, what do you, what do you think 16, 17 sites, is that healthy?” And they’re like, “Eh.” so. In focus groups, we’ve come down to 10, 10 points. Bleeding points. You can do 10% if you want, but 10 points, 10 or less we consider healthy and zero is ideal, and so we did this whole campaign like, what’s your number? We even had scrub caps that say, what your, what’s your number? And I was like, I’m giving these to people. It’s not a pickup line. We want them to ask a question like, what’s your number?

[00:26:19] Regan Robertson: So the number is not your pocket depth. I, no, I have, what’s your gum score? And I was like, well, that’s gotta be your pocket depth. 

[00:26:28] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: What’s your gum scores? How many bleeding points you have? Because how do you know if you’re healthy? It doesn’t, you know, it’s doesn’t hurt. Nothing’s, you know, your teeth aren’t mobile yet. You can mask your bad breath and you might see some blood when you gloss especially, or, or brush, but you’re like, ah, it’s not doing that all the time. Right? So here’s how we did it. We created a gum score with a number on the numbers, the number of bleeding points, and we use that just like you did for blood pressure. Like how do you know if your blood pressure is in a normal range? 

[00:27:00] Regan Robertson: It’s, you’ve got your number, your top and your bottom. That’s right. You, you look at the colored chart that say, there you go. You know, on the wall, am I in, in range, out of range. That’s right. 

[00:27:09] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Or your cholesterol or blood sugar or whatever it is. Right. 

[00:27:13] Regan Robertson: So wouldn’t that be great to have that as a little poster on the wall too? Like a little color coded? What’s your gum score? Just like your blood pressure. You could even, that’s right, you don’t do that. You should do that. ’cause that would be mimicking, right? 

[00:27:24] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: So we have this whole campaign rolling out. You don’t even know that but yet you. 

[00:27:28] Regan Robertson: No, no, I came, no listeners. I came into this blind. Like I come into most of my interviews intentionally so that I can be just as curious and, and maybe ignorant as you are, uh, with a little bit less clinical knowledge, but no, I didn’t know that but that would be, I, I can’t wait. I can’t wait to see this campaign roll 

[00:27:44] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: out. Well, I will give you the less than a minute, five point presentation for a patient. Okay? So you come in, let’s say you have 48 bleeding points, Regan, when you come. So we do the whole thing and, and then as your hygienist or your professional, I would say, “I’m concerned that you have a high gum score. It’s 48. That means there’s 48 areas in your gums that are infected and bleeding. Now, the ideal score would be zero, but we wanna get you under 10. So we’re trying to move from 48 under to 10, as close to zero as we can. The third point is so important. I know you’re trying hard at home. Yeah. The problem is that your toothbrush rinse and floss just doesn’t get deep enough. That’s why we prescribe Perio Protect. This is a special tray that’s made just for you that will gently deliver the medication deep so that the medication can fight that infection. You just wear 10 to 15 minutes a day. Not only are you gonna have healthier gums, you’re also going to have wider teeth and super fresh breath,” and then stop talking ’cause you told ’em a lot rightly that go along with it. All of it. Yeah. Right. Let it sink in because then they’ll come up with questions and, and if some people say, I need to think about it, there’s two routes you can go. This is no sales pitch, no pressure. We don’t, we’re not trying to like sell anybody anything. We just give them the information that what do you think is the best care and they get to choose it. So if they say, I need to think about this, I would say, I’m really glad you are gonna con, continue thinking about this. It’s, it’s important ’cause this is not healthy. What can you do differently now at home to improve your health? So. What can they do differently? It’s up to them and I silently, awkwardly wait for them to answer right it, that, 

[00:29:19] Regan Robertson: It can be painful, but it’s really, it’s important to let the brain process what it’s heard and see you get nervous, you know, we fill the space. But allowing when you say such an important anchor statement and you deliver it with that care of this is really important, um, yeah, it painful for you, but it really does a service for the patient to allow that silence to sit for a little bit. 

[00:29:40] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: And then you also get some judge by what they say as to what is their dental acumen, because they might say, oh, I’m gonna floss every day, or I’m gonna brush twice, or whatever, and you say, terrific. That is a good first step. We’re gonna document that and we’ll score your gums when you’re in next time. In the meantime, you hand ’em a brochure and you say, not gonna floss there. Well, even if they do, it’s not gonna matter. It’s not gonna get deep enough. Right. 

[00:30:01] Regan Robertson: That and you know, that piece said that to your four-step process there. I was gonna say, do you know how amazing it’s gonna feel to be like, this isn’t, you could even say, you know, this isn’t your fault. Like you could brush That’s right, and floss several times a day and you’re still not gonna get deep enough that that like takes that pressure off that person and middle. 

[00:30:18] Dr. Tanya Dunlap:  That’s the idea, because peoplewho are defensive, like they can’t hear you. You know, though. They, it, they’re closed off. They can’t understand what you’re saying and you are like right there with them. ’cause you want better results for them. Yeah, and it’s not your fault. They want better results and honestly, it’s not all their fault. Uh, sometimes that’s not their fault at all, and so to be able to say that and then what are you gonna do differently? That’s good. “Let’s, let’s start there and we’ll score your gums next time. Take this brochure. Let me know if you have any questions before your next appointment, and you just go two different routes. My, my main concern for you is the infections around your, your, uh, crowns. We’ve been monitoring those. We want your crowns to last as long as possible, and they will with healthy tissue, or my main concern is that this chronic infection in your gums is gonna make it harder for you to manage your blood sugar as a type two diabetic.” You just stop talking because it’s, it’s totally up to them. They get to decide what they, what they do and don’t do but they can’t make a decision if they don’t know. 

[00:31:16] Regan Robertson: No, and, and it’s un and it’s not fair for them not to know. I think that’s Heather and it, for me, the travesty, like I said before, it, they don’t have this as an option. Then, and they, and they’re stuck to just brushing and flossing and we, we know that that’s not going to do what it needs to do. That’s, that’s unfortunate, and it’s not that this is the only solution. There are other solutions, but there are, to me, um, you know, if I have an opportunity to prevent surgery, perhaps, uh, you know, and be in that preventative space or to prevent 

[00:31:42] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Or prevent bone loss in the early stages.

[00:31:44] Regan Robertson: Yeah. 

[00:31:45] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Or to prevent the infection around the implants that you just put in. Right? All of these things are good reasons. 

[00:31:50] Regan Robertson: Oh, that is some of my favorite discussions of all is how are you gonna take care of this investment that you have just put in your mouth. Yeah. Those crowns are though some, there are some dentistry, which we know is a serious investment, so It is. That’s right. You want to keep the, the tissue around it really healthy, but you have to have those conversations. 

[00:32:07] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Right, and we hope, um, if anyone tries out the gum score that it will get your patient’s attention so that they accept treatment that they need. Whether it’s higher protect or not, it doesn’t matter. Yeah. I mean, I want that, but you know what I mean. It’s important that patients understand that that chronic infection needs attention.

[00:32:30] Regan Robertson: Tanya, your passion for this is, is incredible, and uh, I am really thrilled to announce I did not forget, but I held it off listeners, uh, you are going to be presenting for free so anyone can attend. That’s right. This coming, um, September 30th. So, Clinical Calibration Institute is hosting a mastermind session with you to dive deeper. Into this topic. I just came up with that on the fly. I’m just so clever. Uh, we’re gonna dive deeper into this topic, and, and it is, it’s, it’s really gonna be, you know, a product agnostic mastermind session. So it’s, you get CE for it, it’s a GD compliant, and I just cannot, I can’t believe that you’re gonna, I’m really excited that you’re gonna do this, and I know that you’re gonna do this because of your passion and all of the education that you have. So this will be September 30th open to everyone. I think it’s 1:00 PM EST. So if you, uh, listeners, if you wanna hear Tanya, go deeper into this. Go to clinicalcalibration.com and you will see an area to sign up for it. Is there anything that you want people to know about this particular mastermind session?

[00:33:34] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: So bring your questions. We will have images, so you’ll get to see case studies as we go through. We can talk about as much research as you. I used to be the research liaison, so I really, I love talking about that. I spent four years of my life on it. So bring your questions. You know, we’ll talk light up, and, um, it’ll be a moment for you to really explore the options for your patients, for your practice and decide if this is something you wanna try out. There’s no cost, right? So it’s, it’s an easy, it’s an easy entry. 

[00:34:05] Regan Robertson: Wow. Well, thank you so much. If people want to, uh, get in touch with you in the meantime, because I know you’re gonna go register clinicalcalibration.com, but other than that, how can people get ahold of you?

[00:34:16] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: So, uh, the easiest way is support@perioprotect.com, but if you get my actual name and number, it’s T Dunlap. So T for Tanya Dunlap, LAP at Perio Protect. That’s a really easy way, um, to get ahold of me. 

[00:34:31] Regan Robertson: Thank you Tanya, so much for sharing your passion. Thank you Regan, and helping improve all the patients.

[00:34:36] Dr. Tanya Dunlap: Thank you very much for your interest and for this time. I’ve really enjoyed it.