Earning the Right to Get New Patients (E.291)

“Have you earned the right to get a referral—or are you just hoping for one?” – Sara Hansen

Too many dentists think marketing is something you do outside the practice. But real, sustainable growth starts within. In this candid and empowering episode, marketing strategist Sara Hansen joins Dr. Maggie Augustyn, Dr. Chad Johnson, and Regan Robertson to tackle the invisible barriers keeping teams from confidently asking for reviews and referrals.

Whether it’s past trauma, introversion, or just plain discomfort—Sara gives real solutions, not just tactics. You’ll learn how to train your team, align your message, and turn everyday patient interactions into powerful brand advocates.

You’ll learn:

• Why internal marketing often fails—even with great teams
• The “three Rs” that drive practice growth (without a big ad spend)
• A step-by-step reframe that makes asking for referrals feel natural
• Why some patients don’t leave reviews—even when they love you
• How to earn the right to ask (and how to know when you haven’t)

Key Reflection Questions for Listeners

• Is my team clear on what we’re asking patients to do—and why?
• Do our patient experiences consistently earn the right to a review?
• Am I being silent about our strengths and expecting patients to guess?

Suggested Next Steps

• Review your current referral and review flow—what’s working, what’s not?
• Try Sara’s approach: ask patients if they saw your reviews—then invite them to add their own.
• Explore marketing from the inside out at productivedentist.com/clinical-calibration-institute

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:06] Regan Robertson: Welcome to the Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. I’m Regan Robertson and my co-host Dr. Chad Johnson. Dr. Maggie Augustyn and I are on a mission to share the stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods you can take into your own dental practice if you are ready to reclaim your time so you can focus on great patient care without sacrificing yourself along the way. Buckle up and listen in

[00:00:31] Sara Hansen: when it comes to reviews. The purpose of reviews are we are looking as consumers for authentic, truthful experiences. Anytime we order anything on Amazon or other websites, the first thing we do is we read the reviews because we believe and trust the feedback that’s coming from those people who’ve experienced that, you know, if the outfit runs too small, if it broke after two days, right? We believe those and that ultimately changes our buying, um, purposes and what we do, right? We may move on if there’s not great feedback from the people who have authentically used the product. So the purpose of reviews is really about authenticity and them leaving the experiences.

[00:01:19] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Marketing is like occlusion. This is what I, what I tell Wade Kiffer all the time. It’s like black magic, right, and I should have my crystals out to help me guide through the process.

[00:01:31] Dr. Chad Johnson: Truth

[00:01:32] Regan Robertson: There is, I’ve learned over my 26 years, 26 years in, in marketing that, uh, that I actually. I personally don’t enjoy marketing. I actually don’t like marketing, which is a really weird thing to say, uh, especially from someone who has been in marketing this entire time and I think it’s my own evolution. I, what I love is the story and the essence of a brand nd a brand is more than, uh, than one element of it. So I think marketing overall, it, it tends to get painted on lots of different elements. And, and the reality is, is that marketing is, is a beautiful distribution channel and that’s where it can become the biggest blessing ever. And it can also become the most overwhelming and confusing area. And so Maggie, when you’re saying that it feels like, you know, it’s just black magic. It’s, it is, there’s a bit of mystery to it and, and you know why? It’s not like fast and hard. It’s unique to the brand and the audience that you’re trying to attract. And so just like anything, it takes a lot of practice. It takes some skill, it takes a lot of listening and, uh, I am really excited today We have the full crew here to have Sarah Hanson in the hot seat. Listeners get ready because Sarah absolutely, not only does she love marketing, like it pours out of her skin  naturally, and she has this way of making uncomfortable stuff really fun and so. If marketing to you feels like, ugh, like I have to, or I just don’t know if I’m doing it right, she’s there to guide you along the way and her and I have worked together for several years now, and she has just, she’s inspired me. Um, she’s shown me how easy she makes it to, to wanna market, and most importantly, she understands the essence and the difference between a brand and marketing and she bridges the two together really well so that you can make sure that when you tell your brand story, it’s gonna go to the right place. So Chad and Maggie, welcome to our show. So pleased that both of you are following us. Any, any notes that you have to say before we bring Sarah into the conversation?

[00:03:43] Dr. Chad Johnson: Well, I was gonna ask Maggie, uh, uh, I was gonna ask, uh, Sarah, is, is, is the marketing exuding from your pores? Is that what gives you your glow?

[00:03:51] Regan Robertson: The marketing glow?

[00:03:53] Sara Hansen: Yes. I, I wonder like pregnancy glow. That’s marketing.

[00:03:58] Regan Robertson: Yes. Oh, oh.

[00:04:03] Dr. Chad Johnson: Breathing new ideas. Yes,

[00:04:07] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: And and one of the things about Sarah, and I’ve known her for quite a few years now, is that she just stands in this confidence of what marketing is and she exudes that, not just when you’re working with her, but if you’ve ever seen her on stage. And that confidence is not just her walking around saying, “I know this stuff,” but she has a lot behind her to support the confidence that she, that she stands in snd I really look forward to this conversation in kind of teasing that out of her and, and, uh, and showing our listeners some of these pearls that I have no doubt she will present, uh, to you guys that you can take away just from this short podcast and incorporate into your practice. This black magic

[00:04:59] Dr. Chad Johnson: When, yeah, when, when Sarah tells her puppy story. I’m serious. I can about cry on demand. I mean, so the farmer’s dog.

[00:05:11] Regan Robertson: Oh, the farmer’s dog. Yes, yes, yes.

[00:05:14] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Says the guy from Iowa.

[00:05:15] Dr. Chad Johnson:  Well, listen, I’m, I’m not a crier, but like, uh, but that, like, it’s not just the first time I heard it, but I, the second time I was like like, “Bite your lip. Look away. Think.

[00:05:29] Regan Robertson: I think you did get teary. Did. Yes. Somebody at the conference. She played it at the conference and somebody, I think it was you that got teary.

[00:05:35] Dr. Chad Johnson: It was me. It was you. It was me. I was missing my girls and then I’m watching this video and I’m just like, oh shoot. I’m just like, that was, that’s exemplary of finding the emotion that goes with the, the. Concept of what you’re trying to portray. So,

[00:05:51] Regan Robertson: Okay. Show notes. We’ll put the farmer’s dog ad in. So you all know what the heck we’re talking about here today? Yes. Or

[00:05:59] Dr. Chad Johnson: Caveat, uh, trigger warning. If you need to not cry within, you know, 10 minutes of, of a listening to the podcast or whatever, don’t click on that ad until you’re ready to emotionally, you know, disengage and let it go.

[00:06:16] Regan Robertson: If you haven’t listened to the previous episode, I highly recommend you go and do that. Chad and I break down, uh, exactly what, what marketing looks like when it’s done, uh, correctly, and then when it’s, you know, when it breaks down where to look for the breakdowns in it and how to do a great audit on it and I think it’s a nice, um, prerequisite to having Sarah on today. Either way, though, you could just listen to this standalone and it’d be great. Sarah, welcome to Everyday Practices. Marketing from the inside out. If you could just kind of bring listeners along in this journey. Tell us a little bit about yourself first and why, why marketing is so, um, something that you’re really passionate about.

[00:06:56] Sara Hansen: Hi everyone. Three of my favorite. Um, yeah, so I’ve been in the dental industry for over 25 years now, so I am an oldie. Um, but I started in the dental practice, had almost every position other than the dentist and, and hygienist and, you know, it’s interesting going through and sitting in the different seats of the practice. You definitely see patient journeys at different spots and so I think having that knowledge and experience of being in the dental practice for 18 years before I decided to move on and do more things with the education and the knowledge that I had, and I think it’s given me the background that I really needed to, one, understand what’s truly happening in the dental practice, um, but two, be able to, you know, when we train teams and talk about what does something look like or sound like, or how does it feel to ask for a review? Or how does it feel to complete a really great patient journey? I understand what that feels like because I’ve experienced, you know, I’ve been the one to answer the tricky phone calls from a patient. I’ve been the one at events trying to promote our practice and so, um, that’s where I think the love of marketing came for me. Unbeknownst to me, I didn’t realize it was there until I really started doing more and more of it um, and now I truly love it, so I get to be the one that tells the stories of the practice, and I love it. Like who, who has a better job than that?

[00:08:21] Regan Robertson: Well, this is a really unique differentiator here because not very many marketers have held each role in the practice. I love stories of people who have been in an organization and they’ve been from the ground up. So it gives them a very unique position to say, okay, I know exactly what happens at each of these intersections, and I know what matters to that role, and I know what matters to the patient at that role. Um, something that we’ve talked about for years now, uh, is, it was, it was interesting. It, it started a few years ago. Gosh, maybe even 10 at this point. But I remember, you know, doing marketing for dentists and the dentist coming back and just saying, it doesn’t, it just doesn’t work. You need more. You need more. You need more. And me and the people pleasing role, I immediately thought it must be something I’m doing, like as a marketer, it must be something I’m doing. I’m not, I’m not messaging it right or I’m not putting it in the right location, or I’m not hitting it at the right time. Like I just kept racking my brain and I didn’t really think a lot at the time about what happens when the phone call goes or what happens when they walk in the door. Um, I. When I understood that there is a whole internal side that needs to be called marketing, it just burst open my doors and I realized, okay, there’s an actual relationship here between the outside marketing world and the inside marketing world, and, and both of those need to be handled with care and treated equally. That does include a lot of it, it is a lot of work. You have to have a team that’s aligned, that understands you have to communicate really well, and the two have to be married together. Can you walk us through like your experience of discovering that yourself and what you have found?

[00:10:04] Sara Hansen: Yeah. I think oftentimes people feel like marketing is everything external, which, yes, that is a great way to market your practice, but it’s also incredibly expensive to market external and what we know is that most dentists want to create loyal patients. They want to have more patients just like the ones they really, really love and they don’t wanna spend a lot. Right? Yeah, it’s expensive. So it’s interesting because as we started peeling back marketing and looking at things differently, um, PDA, we really came up with this great concept of marketing from the inside out. It truly makes sense and what’s great is not only does it make sense, but we’re able to prove the results from how it’s making sense. So when we look at external marketing, the purpose of external marketing is really to get the phone to ring. It’s announcing to the community and to the area who you are, how you show up for patients, and then it gets your phone to ring. If your phone’s ringing and that first contact with the practice is not a great experience, now all those marketing dollars that you just invested to get that phone to ring is now gone. So really, marketing is the complete patient journey from the time they see you. There’s something that captures them within your marketing message to the first phone call, the first time they come in. Do you listen to what their needs are? Are we offering solutions? You know, and ultimately, are they accepting treatment and then referring their friends and family to come to see you? That is the complete marketing journey. Um, so when it comes to internal, like we have a lot of doctors that just say like, I can’t afford to do marketing and guess what? A lot of doctors can’t but what we tell them is that great, you don’t need a lot of money to market. We have internal marketing and we focus on the three Rs, which is referrals, reviews, and reengagement and those do not cost a lot of money at all, but yet it can produce some of the biggest results that we’ve seen in marketing recently.

[00:12:06] Dr. Chad Johnson: Sarah, can I tell you something? I have? Yes. Oh, good. So, um, occasionally I’ll work at a buddy’s office up in Minot, North Dakota, Lindell Kemet for those of the CEREC world and, and whatnot that know him and, uh. I find it particularly fun when I go into his office to ask for referrals and because I like the pressure’s off, like it’s not my office and I’m not busy thinking about ownership stuff And so I go in and one of my goals is like I every time I want to ask, at least like half of the patients, I go, Hey, you know this office, it looks like they’ve taken great care of you. The last, uh, you know, X years and, and stuff like that, “You know what really means a lot to Lindell? I. Is when people are looking for the office. This might not have been you, but a lot of people go to reviews and they look at the, would you mind doing me a favor and doing lindela a favor that he’ll never ask for, but would you write him a review today?” And it’s amazing because like when I’m there for a couple days, I know like, and I, I don’t even do this in my office well enough, you know, I, I don’t give the shameless plug, but I’m trying to model it for his team. It’s been so much fun. It like, almost like this adventure that I’m trying to see, like, can I be so bold as to ask this grumpy patient that, you know, has been coming to them for nine years, but they must be afraid of and I go and I just butter ’em up and I’m just like, “I would love if you wrote us a review,” and it’s amazing. The next day they’ll be, you know, because, uh, they, at, at their morning huddle, they’ll say, did we get any reviews? And they’ll be like, yeah, we got two yesterday. And I’m like, “Yes.” You know, so and I’m not, it’s not a personal thing. It’s not like, Hey, will you write me a review? Which would be fine. I, but I’m asking, you know, for, for the team’s sake, “I’m like, man, they’ve done a great job at taking care of you for the last 18 months. You know, like, look how far you’ve come. I know that it, it’s probably hard for them to ask, but would you please consider, you know, today writing them a re review as a way of saying thanks” and it’s mm-hmm. It’s just, uh, so challenge to the team, you know, to model that and then to do it, because it’s amazing how many people I can get to actually do that.

[00:14:28] Regan Robertson: Why do you, why do you think that it was easier for you to do it there than it would be in your own practice?

[00:14:34] Dr. Chad Johnson: There’s, there’s no, there’s no shame in, like, if someone says, “Well, that’s a stupid idea. I hate that.” I’m not, I’m not, there’s no fear of rejection. Like if the pa Oh,

[00:14:44] Regan Robertson: Okay, it lowers that there. 

[00:14:46] Dr. Chad Johnson: See if the patient doesn’t do it, the who, what do I care? I mean, like, I tried, right? But in my office it’s like, ugh, I don’t want to, you know, be. You know, ask, but here I’m just the guest there and so it’s just like, why not? Like, you know,

[00:15:01] Regan Robertson: I’m setting, I was setting that up because, um, I mean, I didn’t know how you were gonna answer, but I was assuming that you were going to answer that way because we all fall into this trap. Isn’t it easier to point the finger and say, “I need more external marketing.” That’s that job, because I don’t really want to like step into my uncomfortable zone, and, and ask for a referral. One of the things that I’ve heard that’s really exci, like an exciting way to kind of make it less cringey. Um, I think it was the, my medical practice maybe that did it. Uh, it was, “Did you hear? Did you, oh my gosh, did you hear We’re taking patients again?” And that was really, I was like, “What?” And it just spurred my referral of like, oh my gosh, they’re open now. They probably were taking patients the whole time.

[00:15:40] Dr. Chad Johnson: That’s interesting though. That is a great. I

[00:15:45] Sara Hansen: I have a stat for you. I have a stat for you. So 94. So, so in 2024, um, 94% of dental practices were accepting new patients, and yet 28% of those were saying that they’re not busy enough and so the reality is, is that your patients don’t know. So I wanna use Maggie as an example because we’ve worked together in the past. So anyone who knows Maggie knows why she practices dentistry is incredibly powerful and Maggie, I think you and I had some tears over, like how you show up for patients and you’re incredible and so what I share with teams and Chad, it goes back to like feeling cringey. If we show up for patients because of X, Y, and Z. So Maggie, will you re re remind everybody? Kind of why you show up for patients every day?

[00:16:39] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: So, so my whole thing is to make sure that the patient is seen because they have gone their entire life without being seen and heard. Right? And so the it, um, I, I just want them to understand that there’s someone out there that is willing to listen to them, which is uncommon and, and I have come across a lot of doctors and, well dentists that said, “Why would I waste my time listening to a patient where I could be making money holding at handpiece?” And I find that disturbing and gross and, and disgusting. ’cause I don’t practice that way.

[00:17:18] Sara Hansen: Yeah, yeah. So in, you know, so coming from where Dr. Maggie’s coming from, which is I want patients to feel seen and heard. How we train teams then to be asking for referrals. It’s taking that very mission. Asking for referrals is not about sales. Asking for referrals is about, if her mission to her practice is to let patients know, “Hey, I. Do you wanna be heard and seen and experience something new?” Then don’t they have an obligation to just let other people know about that? You know, like truly, if I was a patient and I had had some bad dental experiences and then knew one of my friends said, “Hey, I go to this practice, they listen. They truly care about what matters to you.” Like that would be life changing for people. So asking for referrals is really not about the sales thing. It shouldn’t feel salesy or any of, and if it does, then we don’t have the right frame of mind to be asking for referrals. If we go into asking for referrals of, we want to grow our practice with more patients that we want to serve and don’t we have an obligation as healthcare providers that transform lives every single day to let more patients know how we show up for them. That really is the basis of a referral program.

[00:18:33] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: But so, so here, so here’s the challenge because you, uh, well, Regan has been in our office and has done incredible training with my team, and then we’ve been in coaching with you, and then we’ve been in coaching with, with Christie, with PDA and have continued the coaching here is and my team knows that they, they see the way that we interact with patients and they, and they carry that kind of mentality with our patients. We are tremendously compassionate, even, even on the insurance issues my, my team is compassionate, however, and, and this is, this is where the breakdown is. I cannot get my team to ask for reviews and referrals, and it’s like hitting a brick wall and it doesn’t matter what I explain to them, what you explain to them, what Regan explains to them. There is something within them and I wonder if it’s kind of like what Chad is going, what, what Chad just described, where like he goes into this other practice and he’s like, “Hey, leave us a review or a referral,” because it feels different and safe over there, but within their own practice they just, they just won’t do it. They just feel like now, and one of the ways that I explain this and describe this is some of the people that work in my practice, they, you have to consider their background.  Some of them are single moms that have come out of abusive relationships and they have never been given the permission to speak or to ask right, or to, to even want and so you put someone like that in a position of having a conversation with a patient where they request something or they, um, or they lift up or they compliment something and just from their own core values or the way that they view themselves or us, um, or the practice, they can’t get past it. Now I agree on everything that you’re saying because part of the way that I think people are setting their money on fire is by doing external marketing and not reinforcing that with internal marketing, right? So you’re setting money on fire by continuing to do external marketing and not focusing on the internal marketing but the problem for my practice has been, I mean the like. I almost have to hold their jobs over their heads and say, this is a condition of your employment to ask for reviews and even then, I, I just can’t get people to do it no matter how I try to present the information that, that they need to do that and so we, we just hit a wall. Um, and I, and I wonder if there’s other practices. Struggle with this. I, I know. So, so, yeah. The other thing is that my people are like, almost all of us are introverts. Like if you have, like, I wonder how much that is also it, right? Like there’s extroverts and they might have any issue with that. 

[00:21:49] Sara Hansen: Yeah. No. Maggie, you are not alone. I, we, I hear about this daily from doctors and practices of how do we do this? We know we need to but how do we, so you’re not alone. Many, many practices feel this way. The great news about these type of programs is it’s not a one size fits all. These are very custom to every single practice because the flow, the dynamic of the practice, the team, how they structure. Is completely different. So what I recommend is what’s going to work. So first you have to look at the obstacles, what’s not working, so in your practice and they’re, you know, they’re not comfortable having the conversations for certain reasons and that’s okay but how do we then. Overcome that obstacle is that maybe if you are more comfortable having those conversations, you do it. Is there a team member that is more extroverted that’s happy to have those conversations? How do we switch up the flow within the practice? Do we have collateral around the practice that says, “Hey, ask us about our thank you program, right?” So now they don’t have to ask, but we’re drawing attention and the patient’s like, “Hey, what’s your thank you program? You know?” Um, so again, there are so many different options to be able to accomplish what we’re trying to accomplish within the practice parameters, there are obstacles and what actually works for them. So that’s why customized. Programs. And I can tell you every office is not the same. Every office we works with, work with, they all have different systems and techniques, but they’re still achieving the same goal.

[00:23:21] Regan Robertson: I have a question, Sarah. Uh, yeah. Uh, and Maggie too. Maggie, do you have any automated messages that go out that say thank you for your visit? We’d love to hear from you. So do you do that for feedback and ref and reviews? Does that work?

[00:23:37] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: No. No, I, I, and I know there’s companies that say, you know, “We’ll get you automated reviews that are sent out to patients.” Look, think about, um, think about going to a hotel and think about getting an email afterwards from Hilton. Yes. How often, how, how likely are you to, to click on that?

[00:23:54] Regan Robertson: Okay. Okay. I’ve got, I’ve got my 2 cents to add here. Just to bounce off of Sarah’s, um,  response of, it’s unique to the practice. I’ve figured this out because I have, I’ve received lots of different automated responses for feedback and reviews, um, the medical practice that I go to, that I love, I don’t think they personally have told me that they, other than, other than the, “Hey, we’re taking new patients.” They haven’t said like, “We’d love it if you leave us a review.” I don’t think I’ve ever heard that from a human but what they do is they have it set up so that it texts me quickly, like, like mm-hmm immediately following that. If yours does and they still don’t respond, then I, I guess I’m not, I’m not helpful there.

[00:24:34] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah. So what we’ll do is, but timing is important. Yeah. So what we’ll do is like, when they’re checking out, we will say something like, you know, um. Some, some of, uh, we ask certain patients for, for their opinion about, um, about their experience here, and I think as soon as checkout is done.

[00:24:53] Regan Robertson: Mm-hmm.

[00:24:53] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: So it’s very, very quickly 

[00:24:55] Regan Robertson: It’ll go on their phone.

[00:24:56] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It’ll go on their phone. Yeah. That, that they’ll get [00:25:00] the, and that’s through di

[00:25:01] Regan Robertson: This is like today, this is diagnosis right here For sure.

[00:25:05] Dr. Chad Johnson: Well, I mean, an interesting. Situation with my, with my two practices, one practice, I can get, um, uh, reviews and the other practice is. Worse than pulling teeth. I won’t say it’s lip pulling teeth.

[00:25:21] Regan Robertson: I pulling teeth.

[00:25:23] Dr. Chad Johnson: I do. I just thought it would be funny to say that

[00:25:26] Regan Robertson: I like watching Chad pull teeth.

[00:25:28] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. I, but the, the two practices, like, you’ll look at the one and you’ll be like, okay, well maybe it’s a different team. Nope, same team. Well, maybe it’s different times. Nope. Same time. Well, maybe, you know, it’s just like there’s, there’s really. It’s just, I think we have a different demographic there and they’re just like, screw you. I don’t care. I’m not writing a review and now if you said, “But do you love us?” “Yeah, sure. You’re great.” Well, but I mean like, “So you wanna help us out?” “Yeah, sure.” I’ll tell anyone that you know, like that I run across, “Hey, can you write us a review?” “Yeah. I’m not gonna do that.” It’s so weird.

[00:26:01] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah, and so our conversation with patients and I’ll, and, and it’s a great relationships that I’ve es established. We’ve done this compassionate thing, patient hasn’t been heard with other doctors. They’re come here, I will spend an hour and a half with them. I’ll give them my business card with a QR code on the back. That takes you straight to the review. 

[00:26:19] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes,you do. Um,

[00:26:20] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: And. And, and I’m, you know, it’s like, I, I hope that you have felt supported in this appointment. Um, and I’ll say something like, you know, there’s a lot of competition in this area. We would really appreciate if, if I, I know this is difficult and I know we’re all busy. Uh, we would be very grateful if you just took a moment and even if it’s five stars, if you left us a review and I’ll hand ’em the card and I’ll show them the QR code and they still will not leave a review.

[00:26:52] Sara Hansen: Okay, so, oh, yeah.

[00:26:55] Regan Robertson: Yeah. So much to unpack. Wait, can I wait? Pause, pause, pause. Maggie, I love that you’re on. You are always radically open and radically honest, and I just wanna call that out right now. I love it. Yeah. People aren’t gonna learn if, if everybody just tries to pretend that everything’s perfect or that, you know, you just do this one thing and it’s gonna be cookie cutter for you. So kudos to you, Maggie. You just gave Sarah and I think it’s a hard one too. So you just gave her Yeah. Something honest to really digest. Okay. Go ahead Sarah. Take it away. 

[00:27:24] Sara Hansen: But, but what I love is what Maggie is saying is what I hear all the time. So as listeners are listening, like, yeah, yeah, me too. Right? So I love this. So first I wanna back us up just a little bit. When it comes to reviews, the purpose of reviews are, we are looking as consumers for authentic, truthful experiences. Anytime we order anything on Amazon or other websites, the first thing we do is we read the reviews because we believe and trust the feedback that’s coming from those people who’ve experienced that. You know, if the outfit runs too small, if it broke after two days, right? We believe those and that ultimately changes our buying uhm, purposes and what we do, right? We may move on if there’s not great feedback from the people who have authentically used the product. So the purpose of reviews is really about authenticity and them leaving the experiences. So when we talk about reviews, I remind teams is first, have we earned the right to ask for a review? Has that patient experience been something that we can confidently say, “We would love to hear about your experience?” Um, we’ve all had the experience where, you know, either I know for me I bought a car or I’ve had a service come to my home and you know, they instantly say, “Hey, can you live me a five star review?” And because I do what I do every day, I kind of clap back and I’m like, well, did you earn your five star review? And I think they look at me dumbfounded but that’s the truth is I’m not gonna leave a five star review to just leave a five star review. What did you do? Right? You know, like now, if I truly had an amazing experience, which I have, and they haven’t even asked me for the review because of what I do, I go in and leave an amazing review because I truly felt the great experience they earned the right. So when it comes back to asking for reviews, we, one, we need to know how our patients found us. So what I recommend is during the conversation with the patient, whether that’s admin, team assistance, doctors, hygiene team, I always say ask the question, “Hey, did you ever check out any of our reviews? Did when you found us, did you happen to look at our reviews?” You’re setting the stage because now what we’re doing is if they said, yeah, I did. Something in those reviews now made them call you and take action so that the conversation becomes really easy of. When you ask them, say, “Hey, I know you found us through our reviews. Would you mind sharing the goodness and you know, talking about your experience so others like you can now find us as well.” Right? Because ultimately that’s the point of a review. It’s not about let’s get 1,005 star reviews. I mean, yes, that helps with SEO and online presence, but the purpose of the review and why it’s important to us is because we want to hear the authentic stories. Now, when a patient is kind of like, my guess. Is that there’s probably something within those patient journeys, you know, that they’re like, “Yeah, I didn’t like the way that I walked in and no one acknowledged me.” Right. It may be a little thing, but so I would guess there’s something to be said, but again, when we can frame it as. I know that you checked out our reviews. What we’d love to do is continue to carry this forward. We know how important that was to you. We’d love for you to share your experience with other patients that now frames it in the authentic way that it really should and I have seen that that has like exponentially increased reviews for practices by reframing how we put them.

[00:31:01] Dr. Chad Johnson: Sara, so what I heard is gonna be different than exactly what you were saying, like what you said stand on, uh, stands on its own but the tangent in my mind was I just go as a practice owner. Sometimes I go the expectations of the customer patient is so high that it’s just like, do you understand that? I used compound topical. I used, I used buffered anesthetic. I got you a crown in one day with the translucency that matches your adjacent teeth and I polished this with you. Give it to them, Chad. Well, no, I’m not saying this but I’m thinking in my mind it’s just like, and then it’s like, yeah, it kind of, it I feel swollen. It’s, yeah. Four, four stars. I feel sw we actually make, um, Dean and I, my, my in-house marketing guy, um, we make fun of this one review that we got. We ma we’re making fun of ourselves. It’s this one attorney that, uh, that comes in and he just put  four stars and I, I told Dean, I like no comment. It was four stars and I, I told him, I was like, “Oh.” So that one Saturday night when I came in, uh, postoperatively to use a laser on, on where you wouldn’t stop bleeding and stuff like that, um, that, that was Fourstar uh, effort. You know, like when, when I, when I did all the thi and like there’s other stuff and I’m just like, there’s, there are things that I’ve done. That, like that we make fun of ourselves. It’s just like, like, we’ll, we’ll have something, knock our socks off and it might be at Jersey Mike’s. Okay, we’re, we’ll go to lunch at Jersey Mike’s and we’ll, and they’ll, they’ll have the sandwich, extra hot, extra meat, you know, the Pepsi taste extra good and, and I’ll leave with Dean and I’ll go,, “Four stars, no comment,” and because it’s just like the expectations are, are beyond what the, the was given. Even though to me, I’m just like, yeah, we actually did earn our five stars but I think in your mind you go, I still feel numb. It’s like, yes, ’cause I gave you extra numbing so you’d be comfortable. Now here’s my point, because it’s a, it sounds like a gripe session, but then, but then I wonder. Yeah. Yes. See, and I’m enjoying it. Yes, because, uh, well, I think, I think listeners will identify, it’s just like, yes, we do everything and it’s like, yeah, four stars, no comment. Now here’s my thought that was introspective to this point. Have we set up to help them understand the awesomeness of what they’re getting? So have we have the assistance or has the dentist, whatever said, “Hey, do you know like most offices, they’ll have you in a temporary for two or three weeks, we’re getting this crown put on same day, and isn’t that, isn’t that awesome? You don’t have to come back a second time. You don’t have to set up and,” but if it’s just standard, then to the patient, they just go, well, I guess it was just standard. And, you know, if, if the toothbrush wasn’t good enough then, you know, but it’s like, no. “Do you know that, that Dr. Chad has chosen, this is the toothbrush he uses at home. He wants all his patients to have this.” That’s different than, here’s your toothbrush in a bag, right? Yeah. It’s the same toothbrush, but it’s the sizzle.

[00:34:09] Sara Hansen: Yeah. No, and, and we loved, we’re all dental nerds. We love dentistry. We get it like we geek out over margins and this and that, but our patients don’t know. So Chad, you are spot on. You have to tell them. You have to tell them really how awesome certain things are, or the benefit of coming there, right? They just don’t know.

[00:34:31] Dr. Chad Johnson: It goes back to Bruce Baird saying, you know, “Do you know this handpiece has a little light on it, you know, on the front?” You know, and it, and, and that could be awfully standard, but you know, patients don’t know that. And so they, they’re just like, he has a little light on the front. 

[00:34:47] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: You know, I referred to my, to my loops as microscopes because they don’t know what loops are

[00:34:52] Dr. Chad Johnson: Correct.

[00:34:53] Regan Robertson: Bringing it back around, uh, to what you said, Sarah, which to me sounds like a, a diagnosis of sorts. Have you earned the right for a referral and because of authenticity and because of the uniqueness of each practice, something that will, that will get me hot and, and upset immediately is when somebody says, “Oh, dental, you know, dental offices are all the same, or dentists all want the same.” We know that that’s not true and the same goes for. Patients and, and your geographic region and your demographics and your psychographics, all of those things make a huge, huge difference and I mean, when I look at Chad’s practice versus say, a high end, super cosmetic practice that serves the stars down in Miami Beach, those two,

[00:35:36] Dr. Chad Johnson: or New York, Dubai even,

[00:35:38] Regan Robertson: Right? Those. Those patients, their expectations of what is going to garner a a review is gonna be a lot different than, than at Chad’s practice. So, so Sarah, I, I know that the proof is in the pudding here. I’ll, I’ll, this is a great example. Sarah will do this if in in offices. So she was the one that like brought to PDA and, and it comes from this wholehearted self-confidence that you can’t fake and you are authentic in yourself. Um, I am in the chat boat a hundred percent. I’m always like, “You could leave us a review and you can tell, even if you tell yourself I’m confident, leave us a review.” People can tell subconsciously whether or not you’re being genuine, authentic, and confident about asking for that particular review. She does this, um, when she does in offices, and I will know that she is in office with a practice because I will get notifications in my email that says, “Productive Dentist Academy. Just got a review,” and I will open it up and it’s five star, five star, five star but it’s not just five star or just four star with nothing. It has, you know, Sarah and, and Star like killed it today. Our whole, it’s, it’s very specific. I have done the same things now as my role. I don’t go in office, I go in. Extremely rarely, like maybe twice, like not very much, but I was like, I’ll ask for the review. I’ll do what Sarah says, and I’ll get like two and I’m like, well, was it good? And then one-on-one, they’re like, oh, ut you didn’t, but you didn’t say it and I think part of it was the way that I, I rushed through it, right? It was, could you, could you leave us a review? That’d be great. Goodbye. So there’s part of that, and so they can sense that and then the other part is what were they expecting? What, what did I earn that, right? Yes. Ask for the review and meet them where they were at and that’s not something I, I don’t normally go and do that. Whereas Sarah comes. 20 plus years have in practice. I am willing to bet you she knows exactly where to meet each individual team member when she goes in office and she knows how to earn that, that review. So is it Sarah, like, does, is it these things combined like this that equal getting over the hump?

[00:37:40] Sara Hansen: Yeah, I mean I think it really is a combination of a lot of different things. It, it is understanding, but I think it’s also, you know, you used me as an example, but. I think my authenticity comes is because I truly love what I do. I love how I show up. I love, love, love my clients. Maggie’s been on phone calls with me when I get teary talking about my clients, right? I truly am invested in their success and I love how I show up. So I think that you can build that authenticity. Patients need to fill that from every single team member and you know, I do understand the repetition sometimes of our jobs, right? But what I say from the stage in the front of the room always is, do you all understand the impact that you’re making on patients’ lives every single day? You are truly transforming lives. I mean, you can scroll through TikTok or reels and you can see life-changing videos of people that you have truly changed their lives. What we do at dentistry, and I get passionate about this, is we just don’t like drill and fill. That’s not what we do. We’re in the business of healthcare. We’re in the business of truly changing people’s lives, and I think oftentimes we forget that. So, you know, if we can go back to who we are, just as team members, you know, showing up for our patients every day, and believe in that role and step in that role that patients come to us because they truly have a need and we’re there to find a solution that also changes how we show up for our patients and the experience, the reviews, it all kind of flows together.

[00:39:16] Regan Robertson: Let’s do this. I’m gonna, I’m gonna go, this has been a, an exceptional episode and the four of us can be here all day. We’re gonna invite you again, Sarah. I’d love to talk about authenticity and how it shows up. I think you’ve done a really exceptional job today at giving doctors something to really self-evaluate in their own practice and understand the complexity of, um, you know, of growing your practice through internal marketing and external, how they go together and, um, and being authentic is, is one of those keys to it. Uh, Chad and then Maggie, final thoughts, and we’ll hand it over to Sarah for the last word.

[00:39:55] Dr. Chad Johnson: My tangible take home is as a team, when you have n expectation that they fill out a five star review or something of the like, and you’re like, “Why don’t they recognize that we go the extra mile in doing X and y?” Find out what those X and Y are. Write them down and be like, we want to be recognized for the fact that we do this and that, then make yourself recognizable that you do those because if it’s, if it’s silent and unknown that the team, you know, is bringing out a, a warm blanket that they threw in the dryer and stuff like that, but no one, no one knows, like it’s just. It’s very Disney-esque, you know, Disney Service to be able to provide that but then like no one is gonna sell the sizzle, you know, in that. Like that’s what we do. We do this for you because we care. And then, then that’s where we need to come through as a team and be like, identify where we are. Let’s call it resentful that no one recognizes this and then go, let’s make ourselves known that this is what we do and this is what sets us apart and, and, and that might take a little bit of, um, finesse in figuring out how to make sure that people can recognize that you’re awesome because of those things. Um, but that, that would help flip the script instead of just being a martyr that you’re always being, uh, unseen and unheard for doing those, uh, uncommon things. Uh, but make yourself known. Um, and it might not even be tooting your own horn, but somehow figuring out a way to say, you know, that this is, uh, what we do as a standard for our patients, but it’s not standard, uh, you know, across the, the city. It’s not standard that every office is doing that. That’s my take home message for the listeners is to find those things that kind of almost hurt your feelings. Like, why doesn’t anyone recognize that we use buffered anesthetic? Mm-hmm. Well, do they know that you’re using a buffered anesthetic and that it stings less when you inject it and you can get going quicker, so the patient is outta there quicker? Let your patients know.

[00:42:10] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Mm-hmm. That’s a, that’s a really. That’s a really great point. Um, and, and I have started to use that since I, since I got the Glidewell IO mill, I have started to let patients know that that is really unique and we’ve spent a lot of money on technology to bring it to our patients, and they have, I and they have become more grateful as a result of that. My takeaway is, you know, when I have jokingly said that, that, um, that marketing is, is black magic marketing is extremely complex.

[00:42:43] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes.

[00:42:43] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Because, you know, we think of it as just spending money on ads or clicks but the truth is that it trickles down to not just external marketing and, and then internal marketing but it really pushes us to understand ourselves, our personalities, the way that we interact with one another, who we are as people, what is expected of us, uh, and how we translate that onto our patients because all of those things are affected and really what stands behind marketing and Regan, you know that really well and, and so does Sarah, is this story that we’re trying to tell about who we are and how we understand and serve our patients, and putting that.Into a package and, um, allowing our patients to connect to that is the basis of marketing but it makes everything so extremely complex. Um, and so, you know, many people use metrics to try and figure out whether or not it’s all working. Uh, I remember when I was working with, with a marketing company before PDA and, and I would say, “You know, they’d be like, well. They came to the office, but they didn’t use the number that you gave,” and, and his answer was like, “Well, right, you don’t know that. But did they use the website that we, that we showed them? Did they check out your Facebook or Instagram? These are the things that you don’t know, but they’re part of branding and they’re part of marketing.” So is marketing working or isn’t it working? These there, there’s so much gray area, which is why I call it, you know, kind of. Black magic. Yeah. And so that’s my, my takeaway. It is, it is really, it’s complex. Really complex and and difficult to track. I think

[00:44:35] Regan Robertson: Sara, are final thoughts. Take us home, girl.

[00:44:39] Sara Hansen: Yeah. When it comes to reviews and referrals, listen, this really is about turning your satisfied patients into the practice’s biggest advocates. Um, you know, that’s really all it is. Let your patients tell other patients about how great you are. You don’t even have to do anything, but just treat them the way that you know that they deserve to be treated and they’ll do it for you. So that’s, that’s my final thoughts for today’s episode.

[00:45:04] Regan Robertson:  Thank you everybody for joining us today. Uh, we had a great time. Thank you, Sarah for joining us. Thank you, Chad and Maggie for being together again. Uh, look forward to more episodes coming forward, and if you wanna leave Everyday Practices a review, you can find us on iTunes. You can find us on Spotify. You can find us on social media at productive Dentists on Facebook and LinkedIn. All the pieces go to where you are. We’d love to hear your feedback.

[00:45:35] Dr. Chad Johnson: Especially if it’s five stars. Cheese. Cheese,

[00:45:38] Regan Robertson:  Four stars, no comment

[00:45:42] Dr. Chad Johnson: Four stars, no comment.

[00:45:44] Regan Robertson: Take care everybody. Thank you for listening to another episode of Everyday Practices Podcast. It would mean the world if you can help spread the word by sharing this episode with a fellow dentist and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify. Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share or feedback on how we can make this podcast even more Awesome. Drop us an email at podcast@productivedentist.com and don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from Productive Dentist Academy at productivedentist.com/podcasts. See you next week.