Marketing From The Inside Out First (E.158)

“Go sit in your operatory chair. Look around. What is the patient actually experiencing?” – Robyn Damaris 

Brief overview of the episode

This conversation opens 2026 with a reset: Productive Dentist Academy is now three focused brands, and Phoenix Dental Agency exists to help practices tell the truth about who they are, consistently. Robyn shares her leadership story from “20-something kid in the closet” to agency president, then gets tactical: internal marketing is the cheapest growth lever you have, and most practices ignore it. Victoria and Robyn break down how to audit your patient experience from parking lot to chair, how to uncover the millions sitting in unscheduled treatment, and why AI does not replace expertise or consistency. 

What This Episode Reveals

• Marketing is a system that starts with the owner’s philosophy, then the team experience, then patient trust, then growth. 
• Your best growth is often already in your database: unscheduled treatment, overdue hygiene, unfinished journeys. 
• Internal marketing can produce massive ROI because you already paid for trust. 
• AI is a tool, not a strategy. Without prompts, expertise, compliance, and consistency, DIY marketing collapses fast. 
• Patients decide fast. Your photo, your reviews, and your consistency either build trust in seconds or break it. 

What You’ll Learn

• How to run an “inside-out” marketing audit in under 30 minutes
• Where to look for hidden production inside your current patient base
• Why most teams never “have time” for internal marketing, and what to do instead
• How to think about local partnerships and visibility like a strategist, not a guesser
• The real role of an agency in the AI era: consistency, compliance, and expertise 

If This Sounds Familiar

• “We need more new patients” but you have piles of unscheduled treatment sitting untouched
• Your marketing feels like random bursts, then silence
• Your practice experience and your website do not match, and trust leaks
• You want better cases, but you are still attracting price shoppers
• You feel behind on AI, and everyone is selling “push button marketing” 

Next Steps

• Run Robyn’s audit today: operatory chair, reception area, outside signage, street view, nearby businesses. Fix the obvious friction first. 
• Pull a report of unscheduled treatment. Start with the patients who already said “maybe” and build a re-engagement sequence. 
• Build consistency: one message, repeated in the right places, long enough to compound. 

If you want to explore Phoenix Dental Agency: PhoenixDentalAgency.com 

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00]  Victoria Peterson: Welcome again to the Investment Grade Practice podcast. I’m your host, Victoria Peterson, and welcome to 2026. Uh, it’s it’s end of January, going into February, and I don’t know about you. But this year has already been a lot, it has been a lot of of change. It is been a lot of unexpected, and it seems like the pace and the tempo are kind of speeding up.

[00:00:27]  Victoria Peterson: So in each podcast, I want to, um, share part of our journey, part of my journey as an entrepreneur, as well as shared tips and information that’ll help you in your journey as an entrepreneur. So today I have a very special guest that’s gonna help me do that. Um, if you’ve been following Productive Dentist Academy for a while, you know that Bruce and I have co-founded this company in the, in the beginning of Millennium in 2004, and we’ve shifted and [00:01:00] grown throughout the years to the point that.

[00:01:03]  Victoria Peterson: We have three service brands, so under the Productive Dentist Academy umbrella, we have investment grade practice, which is our practice management, business advisory, profitability, production, things like that. How do we help you solve your problems today and prepare for financial freedom exit planning tomorrow?

[00:01:25]  Victoria Peterson: That’s investment grade practices. That’s an area that I head up. Within that. We also have the Clinical Calibration Institute because we do things in a particular way. We work with comprehensive doctors. Their diagnostics, their standard of care is a little different than mainstream. The communication’s a little different, so we have a whole body of work around that.

[00:01:48]  Victoria Peterson: And today I’m going to introduce you to Robin Damir, who heads up our Phoenix Dental Agency. So that is the com. That is the umbrella of Productive Dentist [00:02:00] Academy. We have three very strong focuses because you as an entrepreneur. Need to set the blueprint, you need to set the plan. Your philosophy of care, and your standard is, is the lens that you activate through, and then marketing authentically is how you tell the world your story.

[00:02:23]  Victoria Peterson: So please, uh, join me in welcoming Robin Deir to this podcast.

[00:02:29] Robyn Damaris: Hi everybody. I’m happy to be here.

[00:02:34]  Victoria Peterson: Robin, I’m gonna brag on you for just a moment because I know you will never brag on yourself. If you’re watching on YouTube, you can see how lovely she is and she likes to stay deep behind the scenes. So this month you were featured on the cover of Dental Entrepreneur Magazine, so I want to shout that out.

[00:02:53]  Victoria Peterson: These are coveted. Uh. Coveted, uh, positions. Not everyone gets to be on the cover of a [00:03:00] magazine and tell their story. So can you tell us a little bit about, um, your journey, like as an entrepreneur? Like how did you garner a cover? Like your story was so powerful and so strong. Can you share just a bit about that, about you personally before we jump into how you help doctors with their marketing?

[00:03:23]  Victoria Peterson: Sure.

[00:03:24] Robyn Damaris: Uh, so my path started through dentistry, started in high school and there was lots of twists and turns along the way. Lots of odd jobs and side quests as the kids call ’em nowadays. And, uh. I wound up at PDA, um, as a, as a young kid, still just kind of working in the closet, uh, not really considering myself an entrepreneur, really considering myself just a awo be if nothing else.

[00:03:55] Robyn Damaris: And it was through the lens of PDA that I really [00:04:00] found that side of myself. So, watching all of these other entrepreneurs come together and, uh. The impact that they’ve had on, you know, their own communities and the industry, uh, made me think really about the impact that I was having on my community and my industry.

[00:04:18] Robyn Damaris: So, um, it’s kind of was a natural long, you know, progression into those shoes as it was.

[00:04:26]  Victoria Peterson: I love it. How many patients do you think your work as a marketer and advertiser has impacted?

[00:04:33] Robyn Damaris: Millions, million, millions upon millions. At this point, I’ve been doing this for more than a decade. I’ve helped thousands of dentists reach.

[00:04:43] Robyn Damaris: Tens of thousands of patients a piece. I mean, the numbers are numerous. Uh, I’ve, I’ve had, uh, clients in almost every single corner of the, the states. I know so much about so many small towns and communities now across the whole [00:05:00] country. Uh, it, it’s been a joy to learn a little bit more about, you know, my own, my own place as well.

[00:05:05] Robyn Damaris: So

[00:05:06]  Victoria Peterson: I love it. You know, Robin, so many times marketing gets, um. Like tactical or transactional. I need a website. I’ve got a website. Can you do a brochure? I’ve got a brochure, but I, I can see your heart like this is more than creating pretty brochures. So what’s it really about?

[00:05:29] Robyn Damaris: Well, my journey in leadership, uh, you know, it started with caring about the people, right?

[00:05:36] Robyn Damaris: So at PDA, the team that I worked with every single day, I loved to death. These were my best friends, my second family, and. Uh, a, a few years into being here, I remember you took us on, uh, an emotional intelligence, uh, journey where we did multiple workshops and guidebook and courses and all, [00:06:00] all of the material.

[00:06:01] Robyn Damaris: And I went from scoring the lowest, the first year to the highest the second year because I, I took the time to put in the work, right? So it’s about putting in the work, but I only put in the work. Because I cared about the people I was working with, and I saw that my, uh, my words and actions and behaviors were negatively affecting the room at large.

[00:06:22] Robyn Damaris: So I took, I took the feedback and I did the work. And, uh, it, it all started with caring about the people first. After that, I had the opportunity to go meet the dentists, live in person at the PDA workshops and. Uh, gosh, what, um, most amazing group of people to meet, to have an opportunity to meet and talk about people that just care so deeply about other people.

[00:06:50] Robyn Damaris: And when you meet people like that, you really start to care about those people. So I cared about my team and I took the time to develop and grow there, but then I cared about my clients, [00:07:00] and then I took the time to develop and grow there. And I got deeper into, uh, you know, the research and the demographics and, and the.

[00:07:08] Robyn Damaris: How can I help you make your practice and your life better? Right? Um, and then when you do the work long enough, you start to see the impact you’re having on the patients, right? And that, you know, then you start to care more about the work. Now you start to pay attention to the words on the page just a little bit more when you start seeing the feedback.

[00:07:27] Robyn Damaris: The notes come from the patients who are suffering, who just want access to care and you, you being the person who gets to connect them to somebody who can help them. So, you know, you start to really take pride in, in the work that you do. So the people, you know, the clients and then you know, the work itself.

[00:07:45] Robyn Damaris: And doctors do the same thing, right? They care about their teams first, you know, and they, when they really start to love their teams, you know, that’s when they really get jazzed up about growing. Right? Then they start to care about their patients more, you know, and improving what the [00:08:00] experience is for their patients.

[00:08:01] Robyn Damaris: And, you know, at the end, they care about the work. They want to do the clinical and take the classes and get the bigger services and be able to help people in an even bigger way. So the same way that I’ve, I’ve gone through this process as a marketer and a leader in, you know, this aspect. I see our doctors doing the same thing in their own practices, which is kind of cool.

[00:08:21]  Victoria Peterson: I love that. I love that. I’m gonna break this down a little bit because I’m glad you, you drew that parallel between my path is very similar to a doctor’s leadership path, right? And so I can’t even remember exactly how old you were when I met you, but I do remember my first interaction was at a white elephant Christmas party at my house.

[00:08:46]  Victoria Peterson: And you came in and were super happy to win a six pack of beer or something like that. So I dunno if you’d be quite as happy about that today, but man, you, I’ve never seen anybody line up like bear. [00:09:00]

[00:09:01] Robyn Damaris: Well, you know, that was my second day at PDA, so I was new to the team and I just wanted to have some fun.

[00:09:08]  Victoria Peterson: You sure did. So comparing that person and that version of yourself to now, how long have you been with PDA now?

[00:09:15] Robyn Damaris: My gosh, almost 15 years.

[00:09:17]  Victoria Peterson: Oh, I was gonna say 13. Wow. 15 pandemic. Kind of crunched time here on us, didn’t it? So that was 15 years ago. How would you compare yourself today in terms of maturity and leadership?

[00:09:30]  Victoria Peterson: Were you ready to lead when you first came on, even though you were smart?

[00:09:34] Robyn Damaris: Absolutely not. I was some 20 something year old kid in the closet, and let me tell you, I was the biggest brat on the planet. I, uh, nobody could tell me nothing back then. And, uh, you know, I, I stumbled along the way and fell and that you guys picked me up every single time.

[00:09:53] Robyn Damaris: And, uh, you know, I think. Throughout this journey. Now I, I look back at those days and I’m [00:10:00] like, oh man, what a, what a disaster. But I can see the, the young kids coming up to work for us now, and I’m like, you know what, in another 15 years you’re gonna be sitting at, at my seat right here. So, you know, it’s just, it’s fun as a leader now to be able to watch that development of my own team.

[00:10:17]  Victoria Peterson: I love that. So let’s listeners, let’s, let’s draw the parallel your. You know, maybe graduated dental school five years ago and you worked for someone else and you’ve taken over a legacy practice. Or you know, maybe you’re 10 years in whatever, but you started your practice, you scratch start or you bought it from someone else, or you partnered with someone else.

[00:10:40]  Victoria Peterson: So you might be, even though you maybe more than 25, 30, 35. I, I ventured to say, Robin, I knew you. Right? And I ventured to say, had we said, you are going to be the manager of these people, you would’ve had night sweats. Like you would’ve been

[00:10:56] Robyn Damaris: absolutely no thanks, I’m out.

[00:10:59]  Victoria Peterson: Well, like I got a [00:11:00] sense of I don’t trust myself to do that.

[00:11:02]  Victoria Peterson: And I think a lot of young doctors find themselves in that place. Like, I’m a great clinician, I have a vision, I know where I wanna go. But developing those skill sets is a journey and. It sounded like in your journey. The breakthrough I heard was instead of saying, because it was a little crunchy, like our whole team was bumping into each other like bumper cars.

[00:11:25]  Victoria Peterson: That’s why I, I became a certified emotional intelligence. Trainer, because learner is my number one Clifton strength. So if I’m interested in anything, I will get a certificate in it, right? So now that I have a certificate, I should go and teach it, and I should teach it to my people before I launch it on the world.

[00:11:46]  Victoria Peterson: So that’s how this came about. But I never heard you blame other people. Like, I never heard you say, oh my God, this person is so awful and this and that, and you really did take it to [00:12:00] heart. Like, whoa, maybe I communicated in a way that had a ripple effect. And it was amazing to see you like even have the aha moment of like, dude, I’ve got the lowest score of this group.

[00:12:14]  Victoria Peterson: Um, you didn’t collapse, you didn’t puddle, you didn’t blame, you didn’t ask me to retake the test. You just.

[00:12:22] Robyn Damaris: Almost it. No, I’m just gonna,

[00:12:24]  Victoria Peterson: yeah. You have this nature about you that just says, okay, that’s feedback. That is what it is. Now what? And

[00:12:34] Robyn Damaris: you either take it or you don’t.

[00:12:36]  Victoria Peterson: Yeah. So is there some, is there some insight that you could share with others about your mindset?

[00:12:43]  Victoria Peterson: ’cause you talk about that. You talk about. Don’t wish the hardships go away. The hardships make you more resilient. So this was a point in time that you embrace and it made you more emotionally resilient. Where does that come from?

[00:12:59] Robyn Damaris: Oh, [00:13:00] just, just life. Just life experience, right? Like when you’ve had the rug pulled out from under you enough times, resilience becomes part of your character.

[00:13:10] Robyn Damaris: Uh, well, you know, for doctors that are, that are struggling. Uh, you know, I think sometimes we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be a certain thing or do a certain thing a certain way, and then when we don’t quite achieve that, you know, we, we crumble. But it just leaves an opportunity to try to do it better the next time.

[00:13:32] Robyn Damaris: And I think I’ve had the lucky opportunity to have been able to sit in every seat. In my agency, I’ve done every job of every person that I employ at some point or another along my journey. And being in the seat and understanding what those pressures is, are like, and uh, what your day-to-day might actually feel like, I think gives me, has, it’s given me a unique perspective.

[00:13:56] Robyn Damaris: It’s given me. Uh, a way to say, oh, [00:14:00] I can see why that’s frustrating, right? So every time I shifted and moved to a new role, the person who filled me, I was able to give them something, some, some helpful advice, some, you know, a resource, a tool, something, because I had to develop those things for myself to make my own life easier along the way.

[00:14:19]  Victoria Peterson: I love that and that again, it parallels the doctor’s journey. I’m here and you’re probably wearing every hat in the beginning, you know, making every decision in the practice and. Walking across that threshold of building trust, building relationships, and then saying, you know, I understand what resources do you need so that you’re better at your job.

[00:14:42]  Victoria Peterson: I watch you do that every day, and you create committees and you go, you know what? This seems stressful for everybody. I think you three people could come up with a solution, go see what you could figure out or volunteer. Who thinks they could solve this problem? I mean, and, and marketing is changing a lot, you know, so [00:15:00] you’ve got folks working on AI integration and what is authentic versus deep fakes and where do we land and how do we use it?

[00:15:08]  Victoria Peterson: I mean, there’s so much noise out there about you don’t even need an ad agency. You don’t even need a marketer. You could just sit down at night and with an AI chat bot. Solve every problem in the world. It’s almost like the same, um, conversation that we had when WordPress first came out. You’d, I remember that.

[00:15:29]  Victoria Peterson: Remember that like 15 years ago, we were teaching doctors how to build their own websites. It seems so easy. And we were, yeah, we’re here for support now. You choose this and you choose that because even WordPress was so revolutionary back then. It was friendlier. They were like, nah, they can never, so then we built them and we gave them admin access on the backend and then they would goof it up and they were like, Nope, you don’t even get admin access on the backend.

[00:15:56]  Victoria Peterson: So I feel kind of like that’s the same noise that’s [00:16:00] around AI and automations right now is, you know, just click these buttons and you can save money, which is always top of mind for doctors. Employ less people have less conversations. How does it really work though, Robin? How does it,

[00:16:16] Robyn Damaris: how does, so ai, AI is a fantastic tool, right?

[00:16:20] Robyn Damaris: But it’s a tool like any other tool. Someone still has to use the tool. You have to know what prompts to put into AI to get them to give you the output that you, you want to get from it, right? And I think people are scared of ai, but AI can be a beautiful and wonderful and helpful thing if you use it, right?

[00:16:39] Robyn Damaris: And I think where. People get excited about the do it yourself model of ai, um, where it usually. Fails is in the lack of consistency, so that like the purpose of having an agency is someone to make sure that the messaging just doesn’t die because you had one creative burst in one night and [00:17:00] you came up with a bunch of things, and then you posted those things and then, and then what?

[00:17:04] Robyn Damaris: Right? It’s about consistency, about having that message, uh, in all the right places, at all the right times in front of all the right people all the time. So that’s, that’s really what the, the benefit of having an agency kind of look. And then there’s the expertise, right? So the expertise that comes with it.

[00:17:21] Robyn Damaris: Like we specialize in dental, so we know everything about every dental state board guideline there is to know and have the ultimate resource for that, to make sure that nothing we ever do, any crosses in any lines, right? We have, uh, extra steps in place for HIPAA compliance and for, for all sorts of things.

[00:17:39] Robyn Damaris: You by doing it on your own. You might not think to put these different things into place before you go down that road.

[00:17:47]  Victoria Peterson: Yeah. Oh, I, I. Clearly. Remember an example of that about a year ago where a beautiful client of ours, I love them so much, and they wanted to do this amazing thing [00:18:00] of a referral program with a charitable nonprofit raffle thing like that.

[00:18:07]  Victoria Peterson: And the whole campaign was outlined and then it came through our proofing process and we’re like, whoa, time out. Um, this doesn’t. Necessarily cross any state board lines. But what about gambling raffles, local, state, federal community laws that, you know, govern this? And we went right back to the tool that your team has built, and we clicked on the links for how do you handle raffles in your state?

[00:18:38]  Victoria Peterson: How do you handle giveaways and referrals and things like that. And we were like, whoa, this is a great concept. Need to change it. This way and that way don’t blast it on social media. This is how you handle that. And so the doctor got to. Do what was in their heart and do a beautiful thing for the veterans in their community and [00:19:00] all of that in a very legally compliant way.

[00:19:03]  Victoria Peterson: So I’m glad you brought that up because not all marketing is created equal. And we have had, that’s one of the reasons we created an agency, and I am not gonna say we get everything a hundred percent right. You know, we, we have our own misses, but I do remember. Someone, um, we didn’t proof we were outsourcing, right?

[00:19:24]  Victoria Peterson: And we didn’t get an opportunity to proof a radio ad. And he was doing, um, six months smiles was what it was back at the time, you know, but, um, short term adult ortho and the ad, the radio ad didn’t have a disclaimer. This person is a general dentist doing orthodontics in its practice and the state board find him $12,000 and made him, um, do an ethics and jurisprudence class and rerun ads at his own expense.

[00:19:54]  Victoria Peterson: So that seems very punitive. However, we said we’re happy to rerun those [00:20:00] ads. And so I was like, so you may have heard my ad. I’m Dr. Soandso, I am a general dentist doing dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. So we just kind of got double the exposure. So

[00:20:09] Robyn Damaris: it’s all about pivoting, right? If, if something goes wrong, you just have to pivot.

[00:20:13] Robyn Damaris: And that’s, marketing is all about that anyways. Finding opportunities and then, you know, adjusting when you need to.

[00:20:20]  Victoria Peterson: So, Fred, Joelle, uh, if you’ve been in dentistry for any length of time, you know who, uh, Fred Joelle is the inventor of 1-800-DENTIST and so many other great things in our, in our field. He says Marketing is everything.

[00:20:33]  Victoria Peterson: So talk to us about the Phoenix Dental Agency philosophy of marketing, marketing spend, how all of that works. If it’s everything. What then what is it not? Right? So where do you begin with marketing?

[00:20:48] Robyn Damaris: Right? So our philosophy is marketing from the inside out. So we always start with the practice first. Um, what’s in your database?

[00:20:56] Robyn Damaris: What patients do you already have, who has or has not completed [00:21:00] treatment? So there’s always, uh, that piece that comes first when we’re doing our research and things like that. Um, I have this great exercise that every single dentist should do, right? Mm-hmm. And it starts with. Go sit in your opera toilet chair.

[00:21:16] Robyn Damaris: Have a seat, take a look around. What do you see? What is the patient gonna see when they’re sitting in that chair? What is their experience going to be when they are a patient of yours? Not necessarily even talking about the communication. Just look around the room. Are you advertising services that you want them to know about?

[00:21:35] Robyn Damaris: Do you have things for them to take home with them? Um, do you have comfort, amenities or, uh, you know, education or something like that available to them, right? Uh, now go sit in your reception area. Go sit in your, in your reception and take a look around. What do you see? What is your patient gonna experience?

[00:21:55] Robyn Damaris: Do you have case studies and things that on the table for them to see before and [00:22:00] afters? Or do you have a slideshow playing, or do you have materials that promote your social media or your referral program, or anything of that nature? Right? So wherever you wanna focus, you’re looking for those opportunities, right?

[00:22:13] Robyn Damaris: So now you’ve sat in the operatory, you’ve sat in the reception room. Go outside and look at the front of your building. Go stand in your parking lot and look at your place of business and say. Can someone tell I am a dentist’s office When they drive past my practice, is my signage visible? Does my place look nice?

[00:22:34] Robyn Damaris: Does it look run down? Do need to screw something up? Do I still have Christmas lights up from three years ago? You know, there’s, there’s things like that you need to just pay attention to. And then do yourself the favor of just driving down your street and looking around what businesses are nearby that you might wanna partner with or, you know, that you might wanna incorporate into your day to day.

[00:22:56] Robyn Damaris: You know, uh, what does the, does the, the [00:23:00] patient see when they’re driving down your street? Can they see your building at all? Are you on the backside? Are you in a big medical office building? Those are things that you have to help the patient overcome a new patient when they’re coming to your practice for the first time.

[00:23:13] Robyn Damaris: Your job is to, as a marketer for your own practice, is to look for opportunities where you can improve your patient experience. You can educate them on the things you need to educate them on. You can give them things, uh, to make those connections. You should be looking at ways that you can build that in your community.

[00:23:32] Robyn Damaris: So not just your patient, but where is your prospective patient spending their time. You know, where are, are they sitting at the coffee shop that is three doors down from you? And like, that seems like a really easy, you know, conversation to go have with an owner of a coffee shop. So it’s all about like, just put yourself in the position of being a new patient and give yourself the experience and try to improve it like that.

[00:23:58] Robyn Damaris: That is marketing [00:24:00] from the inside out at its core. Now beyond that, right, you start getting into it.

[00:24:06]  Victoria Peterson: For just a, because I don’t want to, uh, you two dropped so many. Gems right there. So first of all, like do a tour, like as a patient, we call that sometimes from parking lot to patient chair. You know, the five senses.

[00:24:21]  Victoria Peterson: What do I see? What do I hear? What do I smell? What am I gonna taste? What does it feel like energetically? And I know as a consultant over the years, I would sometimes just quietly go into a reception area and sit in a corner where maybe the receptionist couldn’t see me or right away. In client offices just to get a feel and, and some offices you go sit and I, I would get a migraine, like there was like a negative vibe between the team and your patients can feel that if you’re not getting long, they don’t know what’s wrong, you just know something’s wrong.

[00:24:58]  Victoria Peterson: So parking lot to patient like [00:25:00] think about and feel the experience. I love that part. And you also second big Jim, you probably gave this one first. You have so much hidden opportunity. Already treatment planned with patients who already trust you, who may be waiting on you to reach out. So sometimes I know when your phone rings, the first question is, can you help me get more new patients?

[00:25:21]  Victoria Peterson: And you’re like, sure, but what’s. What about all those of you’ve already paid to have here? Right? So word of mouth, referrals, re-engagement of treatment, reactivation of hygiene database, uh, segmenting database scheduling to do more perio, to do more things like that. That’s a huge component of marketing, and you and I have a lot of friends in dental marketing.

[00:25:48]  Victoria Peterson: I would say two thirds. Don’t touch internal marketing at all because they’re afraid of the laws around referrals. They don’t really understand outbound [00:26:00] messaging and how to like, well, if they didn’t say yes, what can I do to get ’em to say yes? Now they kind of just like hope they come into hygiene and maybe we could another shot at ’em six months from now.

[00:26:11]  Victoria Peterson: You have a different perspective on that.

[00:26:14] Robyn Damaris: There is this assumption that your team has to take on all of that extra work, and that’s not actually always the case. Right? There are tools and there are resources, there are agencies like us that, uh, can help, you know, get that can reactivate and regen, energize that patient database that you have, right?

[00:26:36] Robyn Damaris: A lot of times. When doctors come to us and ask for new patients, we can easily go look at those numbers and say, you have $3 million sitting here in un, un unscheduled treatment. How about we start with that? These people you already paid to get ’em here, they’re, uh, you know, they’re already primed for the pump.

[00:26:53] Robyn Damaris: There’s a reason they didn’t commit. Let’s talk about why they didn’t commit to saying yes. Do you have the [00:27:00] right financing options for them? Did you give them an opportunity to overcome their fears? You know, did you tell them? What your authentic message is. Did you share with them who you are so that they feel a higher level of trust with you?

[00:27:15] Robyn Damaris: Right? There are things like that you have to help the patient overcome those, those boundaries in order for them to commit and say yes to treatment. So why get a brand new person in and having to start with scratch with all of that when you have someone who has maybe checked some of those boxes and just needs that extra little push to get them to, to come in, to come back in.

[00:27:36] Robyn Damaris: Also, doctors. Change their technology and their service mix over time. Right. You know, if you’ve got a new piece of technology, you should absolutely be combing through your database to find all the patients that told you no for that treatment before, and telling them, I have a new, better, faster, easier way to do this for you.

[00:27:56] Robyn Damaris: Right? Like there are so many opportunities that are likely [00:28:00] in your database already that you haven’t even considered. Talking to or about, or if you did, it was a one-time thing and you don’t have that marketing consistency like we talked about earlier.

[00:28:11]  Victoria Peterson: Remember, you know what I’m, I’m, I’m remembering. Um, Chad Johnson, who was a podcaster on Everyday podcast and a great PDA fan and alumni, and when he combed through his database because he wanted to do more, um, implants, right?

[00:28:26]  Victoria Peterson: I think he found like 253. Implants that he had, treatment plan that had said no, and we did an active, you know, intentional campaign to bring him back in. And I think he reactivated maybe a hundred, 105. Implant placements, you know? And so you just don’t know. So where does your education goes? You know what?

[00:28:50]  Victoria Peterson: There’s also, as you grow, you know, we know like the first 1200 patients of record that stabilizes a practice and then you start getting 1500, [00:29:00] 2000, 3000, there’s more patients than you might can physically. C and you may be on, uh, in-network plans and you’ve got 400 in-network plans that have a 40% write off.

[00:29:13]  Victoria Peterson: And we need to restructure that so that the patients who are accepting treatment that want more treatment, that have the means to afford it, are getting those slots that we’re not filling them. Up with patients who only want what insurance pays. Insurance pays about half your fee, and now you’re spiraling at a loss because you’re not set up to to provide care for that patient.

[00:29:38]  Victoria Peterson: So practice, I love that you brought that up clinically, we changed over time and our revenue sources should change over time, which means our marketing changes over time. So this internal piece, thanks for letting me. Pause there for a moment because I think it’s also your biggest ROI. Maybe an external campaign gives you five to [00:30:00] one.

[00:30:00]  Victoria Peterson: I you give us a dollar, we give you $5 back, but what’s the typical return on internal marketing?

[00:30:08] Robyn Damaris: Most of our doctors are somewhere in the 200 to one range on their internal market market.

[00:30:14]  Victoria Peterson: 200 back.

[00:30:15] Robyn Damaris: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, that’s the thing about internal marketing is it is the cheapest way to advertise, right?

[00:30:22] Robyn Damaris: You already have communication software. It only takes you time to type up some, some messaging, right? If you, uh. Every time one of your best patients refers another patient to you, right? Every time you get a referral, you didn’t pay anything. For that referral, right? So that’s got a insanely high, you know, return.

[00:30:46] Robyn Damaris: Um, reviews are a great way to get your message, uh, to let the community know that other people love you, whatever, and things like that. So there are ways that you can market kind of freely online using different kinds of internal [00:31:00] marketing tactics. Uh, but really, you know, those people that. Have already, you know, have some level of relationship with you are going to be your lowest cost of acquisition.

[00:31:10] Robyn Damaris: They’re gonna be your highest return on your investment, and they’re gonna be the most loyal and highest referring patients in the long run, um, as if you’ve, you know, treat them well. So,

[00:31:22]  Victoria Peterson: all right. So. One last comment before we go into external, ’cause I know that’s what people think about when they think about marketing.

[00:31:29]  Victoria Peterson: My, my 15 year update, if I had to go from like 2005 to to to now, uh, would be doctors. A leadership invitation here is stop depending on your team to do this quote unquote, when they have time. When patients cancel, when, number one, they’re never gonna have time because number two, they hate doing it. So, um, and it, it’s that [00:32:00] consistency that Robin was talking about that you’re gonna miss out on.

[00:32:03]  Victoria Peterson: So we have expanded beyond, like the communication tools have expanded beyond a telephone call and a voice message. Now, do we still do outbound phone calls? Absolutely. But they’re supported with the messaging that goes out through text and email and social media. They find you and then they, inbound conversations are different because they’re filling out forms on your web.

[00:32:32]  Victoria Peterson: Site. They’re texting their social media and there’s phone calls, so all of that communication training, I think that’s what Fred Joelle was talking about when he said marketing is everything, because communication is a thread that binds it all together. Mm-hmm. All right, so I’ve got my house in order. We look good.

[00:32:53]  Victoria Peterson: We smell good. We sound good. We’ve got systems in place. We’re putting our [00:33:00] authentic selves out to our current patient base and, and keeping them engaged. Let’s say that I want to now just bring, I’m adding an associate and I do truly want to bring in more patients to the practice. What are some, what are some guidelines for that?

[00:33:15]  Victoria Peterson: What’s, what’s your thinking on that?

[00:33:18] Robyn Damaris: So just like when you’re looking for opportunities within your building, you’re looking for opportunities in your market, right? So we always start with a lot of market research and demographics, things like that so that we can see, you know, where your ideal patients live.

[00:33:34] Robyn Damaris: You know, we ask you the question of like, who do you want to walk through your door? Describe this person to me so I can go find this person in the marketplace. Um, and sometimes that person is right outside your door. In fact, most practices, um, get most of their patients in a five to 10 mile radius. Um, the majority of your, your patients will come from there, but if we’re looking at your demographics and we see the patients you wanna see are 50 [00:34:00] miles away from you, right?

[00:34:01] Robyn Damaris: We have to now find a way. To get those people to want to travel 50 miles to come and see you, so we can, we can go to them, right? But it’s really about the message. It’s really about having that authentic message that will, uh, kind of get them to, to take that step and to, to want to travel. At least to give it a, try to at least see what the experience might be like.

[00:34:25] Robyn Damaris: Um, it’s a great way to get people to drive in from further away is to showcase. What you’ve been able to do for other people. Right? So authentic, uh, media is really what you’re looking for. You’re looking for video testimonials. Those are the things you’re, you’re looking to hear the stories of the patients.

[00:34:46] Robyn Damaris: People want to hear people like themselves who are having the same struggles they’re having and they want to hear,

[00:34:58]  Victoria Peterson: um, [00:35:00] Robin. I don’t know if it’s your internet or mine, but I want you to go back to that part of,

[00:35:09]  Victoria Peterson: um, when you want to attract patients 50 miles or more, you know, auth, you want authentic media,

[00:35:17] Robyn Damaris: okay?

[00:35:18]  Victoria Peterson: Um, because you were getting really voy there, and Matt can edit that part, but also tie in, showcase your authority and expertise. That’s, that’s the piece that takes it out and far. Okay. So,

[00:35:30] Robyn Damaris: okay,

[00:35:30]  Victoria Peterson: here you go, Matt.

[00:35:31]  Victoria Peterson: Here’s your cut.

[00:35:36] Robyn Damaris: So if we’re looking for your audience and we see that they’re 50 miles away, right? We, we, we need to find ways to get those people from 50 miles away to want to come in. And you do that through sharing your authentic message and by showcasing what you’ve been able to do for other patients like them.

[00:35:53] Robyn Damaris: People wanna see and hear from people. Just like them. They wanna see people who have gone through the same struggles [00:36:00] and who have come out on the other side. You capture that on video. You, you show them the technology, you tell them that about your experience and your education and your higher level of training on these things.

[00:36:13] Robyn Damaris: You tell them about the convenience, uh, of scheduling that you offer or appointment times. You tell them about, um, how you can like. Make them more comfortable and what amenities you’re going to have there for them to make their experience, you know, easier than most dentistry. Right? So, uh, it’s really about sharing your expertise and your message and what you have.

[00:36:40] Robyn Damaris: To be able to solve their problem, and people will drive for that. That’s the people will take the time and drive past 10 other dental practices to come and see you if they think you are the one that can help them. Um, you know, one, one great stat I I love to share with doctors is, uh, when a patient, a prospective PR [00:37:00] pulls up your website for the first time, they will decide within three seconds whether or not they wanna see you after they see your photo.

[00:37:10] Robyn Damaris: They see your photo and within three seconds they trust you or they don’t. They will call or they won’t. Um, it doesn’t take long. People are that quick to judge, especially, you know, we’re in the era of, you know, these are Tinder days. You know, you just keep swiping through people until you find people do that with dentists.

[00:37:26] Robyn Damaris: Too. I’m gonna swipe through those reviews till I find one that’s gonna come, you know, that’s gonna speak to me. I’m gonna swipe through, you know, all the recommendations that people made on social media until I find one, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna swipe through all of these dental websites until I see a dentist who I think I can trust.

[00:37:46] Robyn Damaris: You know? And you capture that. I

[00:37:47]  Victoria Peterson: never thought about finding a dentist like a tender date, but you’re right. We’re very. You know what, Robin, we’re gonna have to pause right here. This is so much I’m gonna bring you back again and, and [00:38:00] because you have, so I know we could go for another hour on external strategies, right?

[00:38:06]  Victoria Peterson: But what, what a journey here for doctors building investment grade practices, like it really does, from what you’re saying, it starts and stops with the owner, you know, what’s your philosophy of care? How do you care for your team? Because how you care for your team is how they’re gonna care for your patients.

[00:38:25]  Victoria Peterson: How the patients feel cared for is gonna impact your reviews. Your reviews impact. You know that sentiment impacts whether they’re gonna schedule, not schedule. Do we have a way to show ongoing care in re-engagement? Because it does take three to five to nine touches sometimes before patients say yes.

[00:38:46]  Victoria Peterson: And I’ve asked doctors, where does the new patient journey end? They’re like, wow, my exam.

[00:38:54] Robyn Damaris: And it’s like,

[00:38:55]  Victoria Peterson: no, they, they either schedule or they don’t. And if they don’t,

[00:38:59] Robyn Damaris: so they [00:39:00] find a new dentist is the answer to that.

[00:39:02]  Victoria Peterson: That’s right. If they, if you have a new patient, come in, sit in your chair, and they don’t schedule, they have not completed their journey.

[00:39:09]  Victoria Peterson: They just said no in that moment and now it’s a marketing opportunity to say. Hey, like, I have this belief. You can’t reject me. Like a no just means, yeah, and you need a little more information. So I, I take that as a marketer too. It’s like, Hey, we’re really concerned, doctor saw that and here’s some more information about that.

[00:39:28]  Victoria Peterson: And you just keep telling, uh. A story that they can see themselves into. You know, you keep telling other patient stories until they say yes. Or like you say, they find another dentist who will, man, this was powerful. This was so powerful. And I love that stat that people make a judgment within three seconds of, is this someone that seems trustworthy that I, I could investigate?

[00:39:50]  Victoria Peterson: I think there’s also the mismatch if you still have your photo from, you know, 1986. And they come in and you are like, dude, you’re not 33 years old. [00:40:00] That’s a big trust break too. So it’s really important to have, like, it could seem trivial, like yeah, parking lot. The patient chair, 5 cents is no big deal.

[00:40:10]  Victoria Peterson: But if that doesn’t match your website, which your website is the visual extension, right? If that’s not consistent, then you, then you break trust there too. What a, what A deep conversation. Thank you for sharing your leadership journey. Thank you for sharing, uh, this fresh perspective on marketing and how it really does it, it’s a critical system.

[00:40:35]  Victoria Peterson: It’s not an afterthought and it’s not an advertising budget. It is kind of an integrated system, you know, in your success. That’s what I’m taking away from this conversation.

[00:40:48] Robyn Damaris: Absolutely.

[00:40:50]  Victoria Peterson: Anything you wanna share as we close Robin?

[00:40:53] Robyn Damaris: Um, no. Uh, if you wanna learn more about Phoenix Dental Agency, you can check us out on Phoenix Dental [00:41:00]agency.com and find out more about what we do.

[00:41:03]  Victoria Peterson: I love it. Thank you so much. Be well my friend.

[00:41:07] Robyn Damaris: Thank you so much.