Episode 118 – Special Edition: Handling the Unhappy Patient

Think back to the last time you had to handle an unhappy patient: are you proud of how you dealt with that interaction? Are there maybe some things you would have done differently? We’ve all been there. After our episode last week, Dr. Chad and I stayed on after our interview to discuss a letter he received from an unhappy patient. We kept the mic hot and are happy to now share this candid, personal conversation as we cover:

• When to act and when to wait
• How to take your patient along for the ride
• Case presentation

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

REGAN: Hello and welcome to the Everyday Practices Podcast. I am your co host, Reagan Robertson. Before we get started today, I have a question for you. Think back to the last time you dealt or had to deal with an unhappy patient? Are you proud of how you handled that interaction? Or there may be some things you would have done differently if you’d had the chance to navigate that situation again. We’ve all been there. Last week, Dr. Chad and I spoke with doctors Kelsey and Anna. If you haven’t checked out that episode, I highly recommend that you do because we spoke about methods of highly effective communication.

Well, after the episode wrapped, Dr. Chad and I stayed on for an after hours conversation regarding a letter Dr. Chad actually received from an unhappy patient recently. Luckily, we kept the mic hot for you. And you can listen in on this behind the curtain conversation regarding case presentation, advanced screening technology, when to act and when to wait, and how to bring your patient along for the ride. Hope you enjoy this candid personal conversation between Chad and I. Let’s get started.

CHAD: I was gonna bring this up. But I got this letter.

“Dr. Johnson, I’d like to drop you a note about my visit at the new office. I have been a patient with the old doctor since 2007. You’ve done a very nice remodel job. And my hygienist Shonda was awesome, very professional and personal and did a great job explaining and cleaning my teeth. The end of my appointment has been bothersome to me, after 40 years since my last cavity. And 14 years of seeing the past doctor every six months, I was told several of my pits that I was aware of that I was aware of just so you know, and have not changed in years are now considered cavities, I have a hard time wrapping my head around around that I have suddenly developed three cavities in the last six months. That leads me to think that the old doctor in the staff was incompetent, or I was being pushed into additional procedures that may not be absolutely necessary and consistent with my history.

“I’m inclined not to think poorly of the old doctor, and I’m sure that dentist had the best of intentions at heart, but her judgment is inconsistent with my history. And we have not developed trust or relationship yet,”  which side note is valid. All right, back to the quote. “Hence I suggested we monitor the situation the young didn’t Dennis did not react very well. And Shannon did a nice job of defusing. I wanted you to be aware at this time. I’m not sure I’ll be returning to your office if Shonda had not been so great. I think it’d be an easy decision.”

REGAN: Oh wow. What was your reaction?

CHAD: So my mind started going eight places. It was six or eight places I can’t quite tell. And it was supposed to be dinner date. I’m sorry. lunch date was Sarah, this was this last Friday. And I sat for the next two hours in the car at the restaurant. Talking with her about it thinking about it. And I

REGAN: This really got under your skin?

CHAD: Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, and so I mean, so I wrote him a somewhat long email. And I explained to him, you know, everything about it. But I basically just said, you know, at the end of my email response, but my confidence is with my associate he saw.

REGAN: Interesting You didn’t pick up the phone, you wrote it out?

CHAD: I did. I’m not a caller.

REGAN: Interesting, right. Because that is a it’s a well thought out letter that was sent to you. And he also kind of presented a nice worded note.

CHAD: It would have been really easy for him to have not written that. And so I do appreciate it. And I actually passed it along to my associate too, so that way, she could see what the issue was. And and so I wrote back and I mean, you know, just for posterity sake.

So I wrote back exactly. I wrote and I said,

“Hi there. I did not get your your original message. So thanks for double checking. This is always a difficult situation and I can understand your frustration. Something has to give right? I apologize ahead of time its. What’s that,

REGAN: I have to interrupt. If you’re watching something right. You’re watching it. Eventually it could get worse. I was just at the optometrist last week, and I have had I have the most brilliant I think optometrist because when I was 12 years old, he put me in contact gas permeable contact lenses and said to me at the time, he knelt to me to talk to me and he said, Reagan, I have not had a pain patient isn’t young as you go into context, I’d like to put them on you because I’m, I’m concerned that by the time you’re 18, you might have to wear coke bottle. glasses. Do you know what those are? And he showed them to me and I didn’t want that. And I said, Okay, so it got me over the fear. And he went on to my eyes had been stabilized from 12 years old to 41. And I just went in last week and my left one got a little bit worse. He has taken exceptional care of me and you know what my first thought was? primal brain. What did you do?

I see you every year. You’ve never been watching anything. You’ve never said anything like how on illogical irrational thought process I had. But I asked him I said What happened? And he goes, Well, he was it’s actually you’re still better than the write it so but he basically said in a very nice way you’re not getting any younger.

CHAD: Yeah, that makes me want to go to Washington and see this guy.

REGAN: You know, he’s so phenomenal. So anyway, so my, you know, I get kind of tight here in the chest thinking about, you know, what, what this guy probably was feeling. But at the same time, he had fair warning. That’s my point.

CHAD: You’re you’re watching something that doesn’t mean that it’s not going to ever progress. And here we are. 26 years later, this guy’s upset that 40 years after he’s been watching something. Yeah. And so there’s a little bit of irrationality to it. And I don’t mean that in a mean way. I’m not trying to knock on this guy. And I’m not saying his name. I’m not saying that, you know, associates name or anything like that for, you know, the sake of it’s not about them.

But I said, the good news is that ultimately, the good news is that the old doctor was calling it like he saw it at his comfortability level. Number two, the new dentists that you saw my associate was calling it like she saw it at her comfortability level. And number three, you are in charge of your mouth. And if you want to wait in order to see if it progresses or not, then we are also comfortable with that. A

nd so then I went, I went through, you know, I just I went through stuff, because we talked about that we personally use diagnodent. And that I you know, in the middle of the paragraph I put so the problem becomes that if you ask 10 dentists, you’ll get 20 opinions. So it can leave a patient confused with so what’s the truth, when indeed the cavity processes isn’t poof, you have a whole but rather a disease process that typically occurs over a few years two or three, and it slowly progresses until it becomes a whole large enough to either feel or eventually see. And the laser that we use, helps us detect it earlier numerically quantifying it for when we hope to hold on numerically quantifying it for when we hope to monitor it, and then therefore we find more cavities, yes, but it’s also because our tolerance for treating disease is lower.

Hopefully you can appreciate that any medical team with new technology and training might be more apt to find disease than the old guard that simply treated the worst of the disease, and we can’t hold that against them. And therefore the new guard is only better because we are treating disease earlier and earlier. And the risk that we run is that we aren’t waiting to amputate only when the disease is close to terminal. So I tried explaining is just like listen, I mean, you know, like if you want to wait and you know, think that your your holes are, are okay, and that the stains and stuff like that, then we’re gonna be able to numerically quantify that over time if indeed they do get worse. And, and if they do get worse then we’ll be able to plead our case.

REGAN: Did he respond to this?

CHAD: No. But this just happened Friday. I mean, just so you know, this is brand new.

REGAN: I’m extremely excited about turning this into a case study when it should be an article so we should write up an article around it too. Sure. I’m excited because I’m really excited because my initial reaction if I’d received that letter would have been to call immediately call the patient. Yeah, talk to the patient.

CHAD: I would have had too many talking points and I think my trouble is I really like writing it out so that way like I can draft through it and then say, Okay, I like how this is read because even after I typed everything out I went to the beginning and I said I apologize for the long email but I want you to know that I’ve thought this out in essence you know, and that wouldn’t have come on the front end of a long conversation I would have been like listen we use diagnodent. Listen, the sensitivity and the specificity of using an explorer versus the the visual eye you know, and versus the diagonal this and that and there’s different you know, he would have been like Dude, I don’t know what to make of this.

REGAN: So right but but here’s what what what as a as a patient listening in to it, you got me very excited because you you wrapped it around being able to tech things earlier. You also did a really good job explaining that treatment is a bit of an art form, but the why it’s a bit of an art form. And it’s because because when you’re watching something that tells me that you see something. So there’s something to see there’s something observed. And do you go to the point of amputation? So it’s up to the doctor and the patient together really kind of to determine you’re telling me it’s an agreed upon course of action, we can catch it now. And you can move forward, we can continue to watch it progress and continue to see the decay spread. Until what point so you know, is it is it is our agreed upon course of action.

We’re gonna just let it continue to decay until it becomes painful run and you feel like it’s it’s obstructing your, you know, your daily life is that is that where you need to go? I myself would be the person that says, As soon as you see anything, let’s go forward and fix it. Because I just don’t want to I don’t want to deal with that. I don’t want to I definitely don’t want it to progress and, and in patient education, understanding that dis ease in the body, when you’ve got those types of things going on, that causes inflammation, inflammation hurts your heart hurts the rest of your body. So I feel like I got that from your email.

CHAD: No. And you know, I think as well, whatever, if people are diagnodent fans, and they’ve got their magical number, if they use that number, and if you said oh my goodness, they’re staying in it read a 10 out of 100. Let’s fix it. And I’d be I would be prone to saying, okay, read and check it out. I normally don’t treat these until this magic number. And yours is a third of that. I’m confident that this is not an issue yet. It could be another 20 years before we need to fix it. So let’s actually not, but his numbers were way above the threshold of what we use.

Okay. Yeah. And, and so I actually I blind copied my associate into this email. So she see, because this is a tough, basically what I’m doing is I’m holding a mirror up, or whatever the word is, for I’m showing an ugly book, you know, like, because it’s not a pretty princess book where it’s like, Hey, you know, like, this is a fairy tale story. It’s like, no, this is an ugly story about how a patient was dissatisfied. And some of it might be his fault. But let’s also look at some of it our fault. And fault. I’m not really looking to aim blame anyone but like, the trouble is, as an owner, when I started right away, like I took all the heat, my associates now that I’m still the owner, and the point guy, I take the heat for some of the associated stuff, but but they then having been shielded from that they don’t sometimes understand where it’s just like, shoot, you know, like, if we don’t do stuff, right, I’ll get a call from someone saying, you know, hey, what, you know, they canceled my appointment.

So when I told my associate about this, she felt horrible. She said, I’m so sorry, you got this email. And I explained to him about the cavities. And he basically said, No, we’re gonna watch them, which surprised me. And I didn’t know how to respond. And I’m sure that might have come off poorly to the patient. Thankfully, Shonda rescued, um, do you think I should, you know, apologize, or what should I do? And I feel really bad. I got flustered and stuff like that. And I wrote and I said, Hey, listen, I’ve got your back. And I said, I was fair with him in the email, but at the same time, I wanted to copy you in so that way, we could reassess it, what could we have done better or differently? And I also can’t say to him, Well, maybe it’s your bias against young female dentists, or I can’t say, you know, hey, maybe, you know, judging.

In the previous interview that we just did that, you know, it kind of fits the demographic of that, you know, doesn’t that lack of mentioning, but not to the not to this patient, but I think we need to recognize what’s going on. And I said, he also has a bias that his mouth is perfect. And he has a bias that his previous dentist that he chose was perfect. And so I said, The problem is, we can’t say that to them. So here’s just six points of what I came up with for a rhetorical self analysis of the situation. Okay, number one, did you build rapport with them first?

REGAN: Mm hmm. Number two?

CHAD: Yeah. Did we link did we match mirror all that? Question two, did we explain diagnodent? You know, if you’re an office that use diagnodent, did we explain what was going on with it? A lot of times, I like saying, Hey, here’s the deal. I’ve got this laser that’s like a radar gun. If you’re into nerdy science, it measures the bacterial fluorescence within the tooth, and then it reads me back the differential. So that number I can record over time. And if it’s just a stain, I know that it’s just a stain because the numbers low. And if it’s higher than my threshold number, and I won’t get into the weeds, whatever your number is, but let’s just say minus 30. If it’s 30 and above, then I’m going to call it you know that it’s speeding. I’ve got this radar gun and you’re speeding. If it’s going one over the speed limit, I’m probably not going to pull it over. But if I find that it’s going a few over or 10 over or 50 over Aren’t over.

REGAN: Yeah, that’s a great metaphor. Easy, easy. I know exactly what you’re talking about now.

CHAD: Yep. So let’s see what these numbers say, oh, here’s a 20. Perfect. We’re letting it off the hook, it’s going under the speed limit. 15. Perfect. All of a sudden, we have a 55. It’s like, ooh. And that’s 25 over the speed limit. This isn’t just like, maybe we can retest it. Now, ultimately, down the country roads, that’s that’s Chad going f150 down the country roads over. That’s not five over.

So next question that I asked, Did you put photos up on the screen for the patient to see? Question four. Remember, when he when someone hesitates, or you doubt that they’re on board? Let them go for a while with the watches. Who cares? I said, so you get a bigger cavity. And we told you about it. And you chose to wait. So if indeed, if it’s a cavity, it’ll get worse.

REGAN: This is so beautiful. This beautiful might So yeah, I love it. I’m not exactly what I thought, though, I would have been like, Well, why didn’t she say, Hey, we’re watching these, I would think these are pretty bad. But let’s just you know, you can watch them if you want I would do I mean, it’s really not fun. It’s easy to say, I have to match their level, because here’s the deal. They’re adults, and they won’t want to do what they want to do. So I’m trying to find an art to win the long battle.

And what’s really cool is, so this is a new office to us. We bought it from the older dentist, and he’s now retired, you know, within the last month or two. And, and so when we go in there, a lot of people are going to, you know, be like cool. You know, I like the new stuff. I like what you’re doing. If the old doctor trusted you, I trust you. And they actually literally say that out loud, then you’re going to have the few that say, you know what, I’m just I just don’t know about this. I think I want to wait and you know what, the worst thing for me to say is, you know, you’re gonna die if you wait, or something like that, you know, like, like it like as though it’s going to be the end of the world that date, but but I just want them to come back. And then I could if it indeed is so bad, is what I’m saying it’s gonna get worse.

And I should be able to tell the patient. Oh, my goodness, that number was a 55. Last time. It’s an at this time. That’s horrible. Yeah, fix this. Look on the screen. Look at that picture. Look how bad that’s getting are is does that not concern you? And if it doesn’t concern them, I just go Alright, but I’m, I’m like, at this point. Last time I was concerned this time, I’m really concerned. Now let’s say it’s a 31 on the diagnodent. And the next time it’s a 32. It would be it would be it would be making a mountain out of a molehill to be like, Oh my goodness, look at got one. Number one. It’s like interesting.

CHAD: How many how many docs have diagnodent?

REGAN: Hmm, that’s a really good question. Let’s say I’m just gonna guess, a quarter.

CHAD: I know my previous dentist did I know that the one that I had for forever did because he explained it to me. I’m not in a car metaphor, but it was similar. Am I messing up your number here The reason I want to get you back focused on your numbers is I am blown away. This is gonna be one of the best bonus podcasts I think ever by how you took one situation. And you were already laying out like a plan like a plan on on diagnosing like exactly what happened.

And poor Sarah, she’s trying to have dinner on the border, and I’m ordering my chimichanga then getting back to my email. And I know that sounds bad. I was just I don’t know if that’s the right word. I was very motivated to make sure to thoroughly respond to him. And everything that was coming to mind. I seriously felt like I had six or eight things. And honestly, I think my I had eight paragraphs when it was done writing out 1234567 Yeah. You know, like, with a closer, so I had like seven, seven, you know, paragraphs in a closer and every idea.

I was like, No, I can’t I can’t let that go. I’ve got it. And I probably would have remembered it later. But I was just like, I was hot on it. And so we had point number four is basically you know, like when someone hesitates, then then just just roll with it. I I did that the week before someone said, You know, I think I’d just rather wait and I go, we’ll wait with you. And hold on. But Dr. Paul homily brings that up, where it’s just like, we’ll wait with you, you and I, a lot of times, we’ll joke around, I’ll say, Hey, here’s the deal. If it gets that bad, you know where to find us? Right? You know, if not, we’ll see you back in six months. And if it does get that worse, then I’ll plead my case. And I’ll show you and if it’s convincing enough, I think you’ll be sold and if not, then we’ll keep waiting with you. And it what it takes the pressure off is I’m now the guide on trying to to be there.

There’s, you know, sage wisdom, but at the same time, not bad guy versus the good guy or the bearer of bad news. I’m simply just trying to advise them as I call it. And I explained to this patient before we get to points five and six I explained to him I said, you know, this is like an umpire that’s called in on the sixth inning halfway. And then the team that it was being called in favor for says, Well, why aren’t you jumping like the last guy? And it’s like, well, there’s a possibility number one that he wasn’t calling it right? Or there’s a possibility that I’m not calling it right.

Or maybe there’s a little bit of gray area where it’s not right versus wrong. It’s this, you know, it’s a lot more difficult than what you’re thinking it is. It’s not in the strike zone, out of the strike zone. It’s like, well, but you’ve seen umpires like, you know, they calibrate, but at the same time, like, do they calibrate within millimeters? Or a half an inch? Or why only millimeters wide? Why not? You know, micrometers? I mean, how much? layers have to –

REGAN: That is the engineering, you’re coming out. And that’s what’s really interesting. And I think that that in and of itself, we should write an article for you because it is you you said to me one time, he was about holding one of those really bright lights, like sending light? Yeah, transilluminator maybe I get a dog. That’s what I’m gonna name it.

CHAD: You were saying, You were telling me the story, and you were like, Well, I mean, is it? I can’t it says count to five will? Do I just count up? Do I hold on five? Yeah, the curing There we go. So do I hold for five. And it was like, the minutia that your brain goes through, it was quite fascinating, because that is not, that’s not how my, my brain never works, my like that my brain works within a margin of error. And it’s because in my in my job, the only thing, the only thing in my career, that has to be absolutely 100% precise as if I’m working in print. Because then it’s one and done, it’s not going to be redone, that is forever. But if it’s in the digital space, for example, there’s going to be a margin of error.

If I’m speaking to a group of people, there’s going to be a margin of error. And so I can kind of figure out what I can get away with in it. And what’s nice about that is I determine my margin of error. And I don’t usually have to walk somebody through that conversation with me to get them to say, Yes, I understand your margin of error, I accept your margin of error, and we go forward. And now you’re making it even more difficult, because now you’re, you’re telling me that they can control that margin of error. And the only thing that I can relate it to is, especially in the early days of designing, I would I would only show what I recommend. This is what I recommend, this is what my training recommends. This is what my experience recommends.

And a doctor would come back to me and say, Well, yeah, but I just don’t like that color. I just, you know what, I just don’t like it. I don’t have a reason, or I just don’t really care for that design. I can’t tell you why. But it just doesn’t pop. So can you do something different? But I don’t know what it just it just kind of like would would just dissolve into this unproductive mess. And, and, and for me, honestly, I mean, I love doing what I do. And I love being able to showcase and influence and get people in front of the right people, but I’m not. I’m not practicing physically practicing healthcare. It’s a different level of story. Yeah. Well, I’m gonna be very interested to see if he writes back, or if he’s you.

CHAD: Oh, yeah, me too. And you know what, um, to be fair, I guess I can’t blame him if he’s totally upset. And I did write back I said, You know, I guess if you How did I word it here. I said, I understand if you move on to another office. But that said, running the risk of yet another opinion. But remember that how you treat any condition when presented to you, it’s up to you, you know, like, basically, like, You’re in charge of your own mouth.

It’s okay, even if you get a third opinion, or a fifth opinion and stuff like that. So point number five that I wrote to the my associate, did we look over the dental history, and we went to the Kois course together? So this will, you know, matter, more, more people, but the question is, so he alluded to, he’s just like, I haven’t had a cavity forever. And you guys find a cavity? And so it’s like, did we look over the dental history? And were we respectful of that even in how we dialogued it? And so, you know, I said, you can get a good read from the hygienist also about the patient’s demeanor, like if we for some reason, didn’t have time to read that dental history. And point number six, it proves I said, words matter. But nonverbal communication matters more.

REGAN: Yes.

CHAD: So my last thing that I I wrote and I said, you know, I’ve been in your shoes and all these little fail failures helped create you into a better words, word Craftsman to handle each scenario as best as you can. But we have to keep telling these patients in particular the truth about their mouth. I hope that you can see in this email that I believe in you and I have your back. If he does, stick around and you see him again, find a nice way to state that you’re in charge. And we’ll continue to watch these. But I’m concerned about these readings being this way and that and that they’ve got worse because of this and that and explain those kind of things in the last 18 months, it’s got that way.

And sadly, this goes back to when we were talking with Anna Adams and Kelsey. I said, sadly, I get a pass sometimes, since I’m a guy and mid career, and I’m a bit older, and I have more experience. So right or wrong, people will take my confidence factor as the truth, just like they did with the old dentist. But you have to build that over the years so that they see it in your eyes. Yeah. And so that was my response to hers to just say listen to this isn’t, uh, you know, why did you do this? And we’ll talk about this. It’s just like, no, I, I more or less kind of want it to hurt just a smidge, too. That way. You can learn from it. And like, let’s let’s do this constructively. That’s all it was.

REGAN: I think I think it’s an incredible mentorship. piece. I think it’s a great coaching piece. I think it’s a great boss move. I mean, I think you did a great job. And I think the thoughtfulness is what I’m going to remember from this in this situation like that, you put that much thought into it, you really dissected it, and you really want to ensure that it can be a learning moment so that, you know when it does, because it will happen again, it will happen in the future.

Somebody’s going to you know, come through and be that way. I like you know, the confidence building is important when I was doing consulting outside of dentistry. And inside but I dyed my hair, you’ll probably remember it like fire orange, red. Well, yeah, remember that it was like bright carrot, orange, red. And I had that specifically because I was one short and two in the security industry. It’s nothing, it’s almost nothing but tall men. And I thought how am I going to get them to listen to me and understand that what I have to say matters and I can really help direct their conversations in the direction they want it to go. So I thought the only way to do that would be just to really flamboyantly be myself and demand attention basically demand attention.

And it worked. It worked great. I was never, never treat In fact, that was I was treated most respectfully in that in that essence, but I did you know, I did receive advice from from my mentor in that space that talked to me about how you know how I the words that I use, how I show up my body language all of those pieces and and I took it to heart so I hope your associate takes a turn and I can’t wait to hear how how this story you know.

CHAD: Like so my my second most senior my most senior associate I should say, You know my my right hand man, Dr. Emily, she’s a little Spitfire. I don’t listen, I’m six four. So I don’t know how to tell you how tall she is. But look at Atlanta dentistry in Des Moines, Iowa area. Okay, for Anna dentistry. She’s super small. I mean, I don’t know if she five foot is she five foot four somewhere?

REGAN: Is Shonda small?

CHAD: Yes, shes does even smaller my dentists. Because Sean does below five foot I think before 10 411. So but but Emily’s smaller and she’s petite and everything like that. And she’s younger and she looks young. So, but she doesn’t take flak from people. And she is a boss when it talks about confidence factor. So in other words, like if you’re just say, well, that’s just what females have to put up with. It’s like, No, I’m saying that’s what they they’re presented with. But she didn’t put up with that garbage. Yeah, and, and so it’s really cool. Because like, what I’m saying is you can also have victory in that it’s not like you have to be just like, like, well, I guess I’ll just put up with it for the next 15 years. Oh, no.

REGAN: Oh my gosh, no, my parents good friend Helene. She’s the same super petite, super petite 515 foot two, she ran a gigantic commercial construction company in Alaska for 30 years. And she showed up on work sites in high heels and sparkly belts. And she just put up with nothing. So I know and you don’t even have to be rude or mean about it. I’m not saying that, you know, you know, takes no prisoners. But like, but

CHAD: When you’re starting out your career like Dr. Anna, Dr. Kelsey, you know, your, your confidence does need to be built up. So I think this in that moment is I don’t know how long Dr. Han has been with you. But I think this in that moment could be one of those defining characteristics to help lend confidence and credibility to what she diagnosed. And I think you honored that and that was really cool.

REGAN: Right? And, you know, I hope that the listeners that are listening to this, you know, what is going to, you know, perhaps become a podcast here or after hours. Yes. that they’ll see the tie between you know, Dr. Anna and Dr. Kelsey, and when I had asked them, How would they deal with that this email is what I was thinking of, and I thought I didn’t want to bring it up and steal their spotlight but in a separate discussion right now we’re discussing, you know, this email and kind of diving into it more so I hope this was helpful to some.

And and I think the younger you are, the better or I should I even say if you’re looking at retiring This is what the younger people are dealing with. And if you want to help out number one, make sure that you’re mentoring in a, in a productive way that builds their confidence. And number two, be diagnosing to the risk factors that you should so that way when they step into it, you’re setting the bar the bar high, you’re not just giving everyone the pass of Hey, you don’t have any cavities. You don’t have any period disease. You don’t have any cavities. Either. You have a period disease, and then the next person goes in and gets whipped up, because they’re telling them the truth. Yeah. So that’s all I think this is a little

REGAN: You shouldn’t have to clean up the mess that somebody else leaves. Bye, bye sloppy diagnosing.

CHAD: That’s exactly, it.

REGAN: Well thanks for listening in everyone and we;ll see you next week on the Everyday Practices Podcast.