Episode 133 – The Missing Links of Dental Marketing with Sara Hansen

“When we think about marketing we usually think about the external piece – website, ads, etc. But there are internal processes we need to think about too. Can we get them to accept an appointment and treatment?”

Do you cringe when you hear the word marketing? If you do, you’re not alone. For many dentists, marketing is an area of frustration with the changing regulations, unwanted solicitations, and not knowing if what you’re doing is working.  

Today, Dr. Chad and I have invited Sara Hansen marketing coach at PDA to talk about implementing successful patient attraction and retention strategies. Marketing can be fun…if you can understand how to weave it through the entire patient experience.

Get ready to learn the secret to activating a successful strategy that works and that your patients will love as we dive into:

• The marketing puzzle pieces most docs miss
• Strategies for creating long-term dental patients
• Results – it’s not just about getting “more new patients”

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

REGAN: Hello everyone. Regan Robertson here from Everyday Practices podcast. Do you cringe when you hear the word marketing? If you do, you’re not alone. For so many dentists it can be an area of frustration, from the changing regulations to constant solicitations to not knowing if what you’re doing is actually working. Marketing can give you the same reaction that many patients have to hearing the dental drill. That’s why Chad and I have invited a special guest to this episode. Sarah Hansen, a marketing consultant with Productive Dentist Academy understands the struggle many docs face implementing successful patient attraction and retention strategies. 

The reality is marketing can be fun. If you understand how to weave it through the entire patient experience. Get ready to learn the secret to activating a successful marketing strategy you can feel great about and your patients will love. Enjoy. 

CHAD: Hey, everybody, it’s Chad Johnson. And do you hear the sound? Did you hear it? I’m gonna do it again. You know what that is? That’s me kicking this podcast off. And I’m trying to also get my co host Regan to laugh here. Regan How you doing today?

REGAN: Every day is a good day with Chad.

CHAD: That’s right. And we have a PDA specialist today, Sarah Hansen here to talk about our marketing. And not only that, but my marketing because she helps Veranda dentistry, kill it. And we’re here to talk about everything marketing. So Sarah, how are you today? 

SARA: Hello, everyone. I’m good. Thanks, Chad. Excellent. 

CHAD: So our goal today was trying to look at the overall process of getting patients to say yes, but from a marketing perspective, it’s not just simply, you know, looking from the doctors perspective of Okay, how do we get a patient to say yes, but we need to get patients in the door. And it begs the question, how do we do that? And where along the line, do people drop the ball? So let me ask where are some important pieces where people end up dropping the ball?

SARA: Yeah, yeah, I am. So happy to talk about this. So I think when we think about marketing, we think about just that external attraction Keith, right? And what does that look like for all those books, which you know, digital advertising, or social media or websites? But yes, while all that’s important, there are other key components that we really need to focus on to, which is one, once they find us once that attraction strategy has worked, and they take interest in that, and then they call our practice? Can we get them to accept an appointment? So the call conversion rate with the team really is so critical? You know, does your team have the tools and the skills to help answer the questions that that potential patient has? 

Do we have options for them within the practice? And then, you know, did they form a good enough relationship with them that they trust us to make an appointment? From there, we then have that third key component, which is, once they come in for their appointment? Do they accept treatment? And I think sometimes that is those missing links that we think about with marketing is it’s all about that attraction strategy. But really, it’s not that is one piece. That is yes, important. But what we teach our dogs and what we feel like is the most important is that not only are they finding you through attraction, but they’re also carrying that all the way through the funnel. And then getting to accepting treatment and becoming long term loyal patients with you.

CHAD: Right, so some people could get frustrated, why aren’t we getting phone calls? And we might be getting phone calls. But for example, it could be at 6pm? Have you ever done that like as a customer, you know, where you you’re calling going, why aren’t the answer and oh, a popular one for me. I don’t know why I did this for years, but I’d be calling the admissions office at the University of Iowa, you know, to pay the bill or something like that. And I would call, you know, let’s say at 430. 

And I’m like, What the heck, why are they not open? And you’d listen to the message, and they’d be like, our offices closed at four o’clock. And I was like, must be nice. Now here. I’m a dentist, and I do the same thing. But, you know, if we only have people there from eight to four, I mean, are you getting phone calls at 7am? Are you getting phone calls at 6pm? Are you getting people upset because you want them, you know, like, you’re you’re paying, let’s say, online advertising, you’re getting, you know, so now you’ve already incurred a cost, they call, they get frustrated, because they can’t make a connection. 

And now, they just call the office down the street, because they’re just, they’re just tired of it. So you not only spent money to try and get them there, you wasted money, because they’re not going to come to you. Cuz you it wasn’t convenient. Or they make the phone call, like you said, but we’re dropping the ball. And you know, you pick up the phone, and it’s Yeah. And it’s like, is this the dental office? Uh huh. What? You know, it’s like, Okay, this isn’t going so hard, you know, is this where I, where I want to be? And so I mean, you know, there’s a broad spectrum from when you’ve first advertised to where the patient actually gets in the chair. And only then can you drop the ball at your treatment presentation. Right. So yeah, you know, there’s, there’s a whole litany of things along the line. So you wanted to talk today about the three scenarios, or the three pieces of the puzzle? for marketing? Can you frame that for us?

SARA: Yeah, yeah. So of course, you know, again, it starts with the attraction, they have to know who you are, they have to know what you have to offer, you know, and that’s where those external pieces come in. Who are you? You know, what is the story from your practice? How do you help patients? From there, the patient then takes that information and decides what to do with it. 

Chad, what we know about a lot of these patients is if you think about the new patients that come to your practice, very few of them have come to you because they’re new to the area, most of your patients have come to you because they’ve had some type of we’ll use a big word trauma, right? Either they had a bad experience. The financial options didn’t work for them, whatever that is. So they’re looking for somebody that they trust somebody that can take care of them. 

And that’s where your team is that second crucial part of how do we help or kind of like the ER trauma surgeons, right? Firstly, you need to identify what their needs are, a patient is calling you because they need something, you’re not cold calling them This isn’t, you know, door to door salesman knocking on the door, they’re calling you because they need something. So what we love to train the teams on is, hey, listen to what their needs are, listen to their trauma, what has happened to them in the past that now they’re looking for a new dentist? 

And how do we capitalize on that? You know, is it that they need IV sedation? Is it that, you know, they just lost a job and now budget is really tight, is it that they had a bad experience with a previous dentist, you know, somewhere along the line, that trust has been broken, and now they’re trying to go somewhere else. So when we can work with the team to really train them to understand, you know, what their role is, give them the tools, then all the sudden that becomes very successful with call conversion for them. 

And then we carry that through to the third part, which is now that they’re in our practice, how does the doctor’s relationship or the hygienists relationship, build to trust, right, so that now when you’re presenting a treatment plan to them, that this patient is like, Hey, I really feel like he has my best interest at heart instead of just Well, I see your brand new boat sitting outside attach your brand new truck, it seems like you need to, to make some money today. Right? So it’s kind of this now reversal of roles of we’re almost interviewing, or the patient’s interviewing us to find out Hey, is there a connection? Do I trust them with the trauma that I’ve previously had? Right? Yeah.

CHAD: In in two broad categories, some of the aspects that I’ve, you know, well, that any dentist really has tried focusing on is splitting it up in between internal marketing and external marketing. As far as the listener who’s new to the subject, can you help kind of broadly define those?

SARA: Yeah, yeah. So extra marketing, yes, is going to be more of a bigger investment strategy into what you do to get your brand and your name out there. It’s your awareness. But what I try and teach teams about and what’s really important is your internal marketing really is that foundation. 

And if your internal marketing such as asking for Google reviews, internal referral programs, following up on past your continuing care and pass to treatment report, you know, that sort of thing when you have that solid foundation of those internal pieces posting on social media, Another great one, then what it does when we then layer in those external marketing pieces, it now accelerate what you’re doing, because you already have that core foundation of those internal pieces. There was actually a practice that I work with. And what happened is, we launched a big external campaign.

And because Chad, as you know, we track everything internally, we do all the ROI trackers, I pull all the data I want for the our campaigns are successful, right. And what we found very early on with the campaign is that they were getting a lot of calls coming into the practice, however, the team was only at like a 50% call conversion rate. And so what that was telling me was like, hey, the docs are investing in this strategy, that now that we’ve got a hiccup in the system, right, the team can’t get that in. 

So the doc at that point had two options, the option was one, either he needs to increase his investment into marketing, to make up for the lack of skills that the team had to get those calls in, or the patients in or we had, he had to invest in his team, and I spent time with the team, helping them understand, you know, how to listen to what those patients needs are, and the call conversion rate went up to 80%. And so I loved that, because again, it that that’s like, you know, I mean, that’s, that’s a true, you know, opportunity of maximizing our investments into marketing, the extra internal place such a cohesive role with each other, that you really can’t have one without the other. 

CHAD: So you were talking about cold calls, and kind of the opposite of that would be your internal marketing. The internal marketing is when you’re taking people that are already fans, and it could be, it could be literally, you know, your Facebook fans, that might not even be patients, but at least you know, they’re their captive audience. And then also your existing patients and having them be the, the announcers to, you know, when when someone on Facebook, for example, says, Man, I hate going to the dentist, I wish Do any of you guys have a dentist that you like going to, and in Productive Dentist Academy, what we call raving fans, you know, that we’re wanting patients to help kind of express the good news like, Man, I’ve gone to mine for 10 years, he’s awesome. That’s internal marketing. 

And, and you didn’t really pay for it, though you can. But you know, that’s an example where you didn’t really pay for it except, indirectly, everything that you did intangibly over the last few years to make that patient into a raving fan, to keep them a raving fan. So that way, they will freely tell others, and so that your best dollars are internal marketing, as opposed to when we think of traditional marketing, which is external marketing of, hey, let’s put up a billboard. Let’s have something in the yellow book, Yellow Pages. Let’s, let’s send out mailers. You know, those are those are kind of getting closer to cold call.

SARA: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what we know about those internal referrals of their family and friends is that, you know, when you ask your best friend, right, hey, who do you go to as a dentist, and they all the sudden they’re like, oh, man, Veranda Dentistry is the best doctor Chad and his team and they start going on? Well, all of a sudden, I’m listening to that. And I trust my friend, right? So my level of trust with that practice is already elevated, because hey, if my friend has had a great experience, then I know this is going to be a good experience, cuz she wants to tell me about it. So yeah, what we know is that those referrals turn into the most loyal patients. And so it really is, like you said, Dr. Chad, I mean, a lot of Doc’s will, depending on the state that you live in, you can give you know, $25 gift card for referral. But I mean, the ROI on an internal referral is through the roof. It’s awesome, you know, and it is creates the most loyal patients. So it’s a win win.

CHAD: I think when we’ve been tracking mine, historically, you know, well, and here’s why. I think historically, ours is close to 100 to one ROI on on internal marketing. But the reason why is when we ask people, you know, what made you come here, and when we find out that it was because of the internal referral dollars that we’ve spent, it’s like 1000 bucks, you know, that we’ve put into it, and that $1,000 might have $100,000 return that year, on on the marketing when we track it. And knowing that is important, because it’s just like, wow, you know, 100 to one that’s way bigger. 

And I’m still satisfied when we get five to one or 10 to one returns on an ROI. I mean, a two to one is still good. I mean, you know, like it’s still getting bringing you in what you need. So when you’re 100 to one you go, man, you know, like how are we doing? Summarizing, having the associates hand out business cards are, is the team handing out referral request forms and asking, you know, like, Hey, I’m glad you had a great day today. Would you do us a favor? And, you know, anytime anyone has asked him, you know, just let them know that you love coming here, you know, just stuff like it. 

Yeah, planting the seed that maybe three years from now, their friend says, Hey, I am moving to the area. Who should I go to? And you put that out there or? That’s it. I’ve had it with Dr. x. He’s always blank. And now I want to switch. Who should I go to? And I see those things on, you know, Facebook, because my friends and family around here, they’ll tag me in it. And so like, I’ll actually see it.

REGAN: Yeah. So what do I guess I have a question for both of you, since both of you work together. Hey,

CHAD: Regan. I guess I’ve been hogging. How are you?

REGAN: Well, I love I love how we went right down the path of everything is marketing. It’s all connected together. What do you recommend Sarah for making it sticky? Because you get what you focus on to say like, it sounds good to see the success of 100 to one. And but that tells me that there’s something running underneath that that has to be well oiled. So what do you recommend to make this sticky so that internal? internally, the team can really, you know, shout the benefits?

CHAD: Sara, please don’t say a really good looking owner, Doc, because I get it. I mean, that’s me, but we just don’t have to go there.

SARA: Yeah, I mean, have we seen Chad’s face? I mean, it just, he just spells it by himself. He doesn’t even need me. Um, yeah, that’s a great question. So it really is that internal peace. You know, one thing that I think we forget is that our teams are an extension of us, you know, so what Chad believes and how he runs his practice and how he wants to practice and what his philosophy of care is really needs to be practiced by everyone in the the office, you know, they all need to believe that and they know with so many of our Doc’s, that patient care, right, the wow experience really is top of mind for a lot of these Doc’s. 

If we can focus on that internal peace, meaning, you know, that we are treating our patients with the care and respect and the quality dentistry that we know that they deserve, then all of a sudden, it’s speaking for itself. You know, with social media, I know a lot of our dogs get a little bit nervous about that. Like, what do I post? How do I post you know what? And I’m really, it’s very simple, meaning, you know, let it let your team take that piece on. How many Doc’s have great team members that love to get on the TIC tock, I mean, I’m too old for the TIC tock, but you know, that their team members love social media, they’re on social media a lot. And so let your team members take it over, you know, show up on time at, you know, lunch that day with the team or, you know, let’s highlight each team member or let’s talk about patients of the month or you know, other things like that. Just start very simple with just getting out there, you know, making yourself available, and that attraction started.

REGAN: Oh, good. So that Thank you, Chad. The next question, so if you’ve got a doctor, like Dr. Chad, who’s not really shy about getting the practice out there getting himself out there, he’ll bring like a shaved ice truck into the parking lot to celebrate things like, like, creativity is really easy. What do you recommend for doctors that, you know, I mean, that this is not naturally intuitive to them? They’re a little bit shy, how do they put their authentic self out there?

SARA: Mm hmm. No, I think again, I think the team can be a big asset to them. Right. But the other thing is that it’s interesting, because you have, you know, patients that yes, Chad’s right, we have a great time. But not all patients, you know, are always looking for that Chad. Right, right, looking for different dogs. And really, at the end of the day, what patients are looking for, and where they make that connection is that trust. So regardless of the docs, personality, or regardless if you put themselves out there or not, if they feel the connection, they need to hear the voice, they need to hear the stories that are coming from the practice, because that ultimately, if you can get the stories out of how that doc has changed lives are helped patients in need or whatever that is, then really, it’s it’s creating the voice, and that’s what people are looking for. 

Yes. You know, a lot of things that we do a chat are really fun. But ultimately, you know, where that connection comes from, is those people saying, Hey, I know that doc can help me. I trust him. I know he’s helped my friends and family. You know, I’ve heard that he does x, y, z, right? And that’s where that connection can be made. So really, it doesn’t have to be a big elaborate event, it really can just be that authentic story that’s coming out of how they change lives.

CHAD: I’ve heard an interesting, take on it before, normally what you would do is have your team come in and ask the patient, hey, do you mind if I got a picture with you in the doctor? But it was a different take on it. And I wish I could remember where I heard it from where they said, hey, what you should do is the team member comes in and says, Hey, Doc, do you mind if I were to take a picture with you and this patient, you know, and you’re actually asking the doctor for permission to do it? assuming what it does is it assumes that the patient was okay. Taking the picture. 

Normally, we’re asking the patient, assuming that it’s okay with the doctor. But if you flip it around, that you’re actually making it seem like it’s some kind of, I don’t know, many reward that it’s like, oh, yeah, I mean, why not? You know that you’re taking the picture with the doctor. And so it was kind of a cool flip. And I was like, I really liked that. What’s your what’s your thought on that little nugget?

SARA: Yeah, I think anything that can really elevate the relationship part of it, because really, that’s what you’re talking about, you know, is that relationship with the patient? Child, I know you and I’ve talked about in the past about even having you have the great idea of having, like photos, scrolling through like the computer monitors and waiting for a screensaver like that, yeah, screensaver. Again, it’s, you know, you’re forming that connection with them, though, I think, you know, learning a little bit more about the docs and the team members without necessarily having to be, you know, in their face about it, just those subtle things where they’re like, Oh, hey, I saw Chad, you know, riding his bike. Hey, Dr. Chad, are you a cyclist? You know, tell me about that, you know. So, again, there’s all these little ways to really bring out those stories, not only just about dentistry, but about who they are, and about who the team is, as well.

CHAD: Yep, agreed. So, the three things that we were kind of hoping to, we’ve already talked about a couple of them, the internal marketing, and obviously, everyone knows external marketing. That’s what they think of with marketing. And we’ve, we’ve kind of touched on, you know, case acceptance. And so when you’re when you’re looking at, you know, what, what most doctors think of when they hear marketing, I mean, just in general.

SARA: Yeah, well, the phrase that I get most often when I say, Hey, Doc, What’s your goal? Usually, they say, I just want more new patients, I just want more new patients, right. So it’s very limited in what their goal is. So what I do is I try and take a little deeper dive like, okay, you know, talk to me about what that means for you. You know, are we really trying to target certain things? You know, are you really wanting to target implants? Are you really wanting to target just overall new patients? What does that go look like? 

And then the other conversation I really like to have with them, too, is, you know, who are we targeting, but also what have you done in the past. And, of course, we know that our patients sometimes go through, you know, bad experience, but so have our Doc’s. And, you know, I am sure that there are many Doc’s on this podcast, that are listening, that have had bad experiences with marketing. And so here are a PDE, we actually approach things very differently. What we do is we do a lot of deep discovery, as you know, Chad, we try and figure out what’s gonna work. 

And then what we do too, is we track everything through an ROI tracker, I pull all the analytics, Chad knows all of this, we meet all the time about how his campaigns are performing, because we want to know not every campaign is going to work as successful as another, you know, for example, the internal marketing campaign is hugely successful. And you know, where another campaign may still produce a great ROI. But it may not be you know, as successful right? So, and those are all things that we like to pull and look at, before we start working with a doc so that it doesn’t become a bad experience for them. Sometimes I think that, you know, marketing is I believe Regan said this, and I absolutely love this quote, but Regan said, marketing is only a piece but yet, you know, marketing really is all of it. Right? Regan, you said that I love that because it is you know and marketing can be just a small piece of the puzzle that the dogs look at and really want to be focused on. But what we know is that it really is a strategy that involves the entire team, the doc you know myself. It becomes such a big puzzle. We don’t just want to focus on one little piece of that puzzle. There really is so much that goes into that.

REGAN: Oh Sarah, I love that when if I’m the doctor sitting here what puzzle pieces Am I in danger of missing what puzzle pieces do a lot of Doc’s Miss?

SARA: They miss that story parts. They miss that really often. Tic part of why they do what they do. You know, again, it’s, there’s a story that belongs to demonstrate right, there’s a connection that needs to be made, because these patients are investing a lot within their, their health. And you know, dentistry is expensive, it can be expensive. And so what we want to do is create the story of why you trust me why I’m here to help you, you know, I’m a health care provider, because I care about you, you know, and here’s how I change other people’s lives. And so I think sometimes we get so caught up in getting our brand out there. But what we like to do is peel that layer back, what is your brand saying about you? You know, what, what is it that you want patients to know about you?

CHAD: And I honestly think a lot of people sabotage their own brand when they advertise, for example, unless this is your thing, but we do cleanings, we clean your teeth, like we’re we like you haven’t clean teeth. And it’s like, that’s great and all. But what’s funny is it reminds me of that, that girl in Napoleon Dynamite that went door to door and at the beginning of the movie, and she goes up to the door, and she’s like, would you like a bracelet? Sure, we all do. And it’s just like, this is just like a that’s a cold call mess. 

And it’s just like, what, why did I even answer the door? Like, what what are you even here for? And it’s just like, well, you happen to be the next house I was knocking on and I was just hoping that you would need a bracelet. And it’s or, or whatever it was hair ties, or nails or it was something kind of corny, I don’t even remember. And it was a great movie, right? But the point of that was almost just like this. It’s a great marketing example, where it’s just like, what, what are we trying to tell people when it’s like, Hey, you need to come in and get your teeth cleaned. It’s just like, Yeah, that’s great. 

No, but like, is that what you’re about? And sure enough, that’s what people think you’re about. And if you say, you know, it’s time to use up your insurance money, it’s just like, because we’re that’s what we’re looking for. And listen, if that’s what we need, like as a as a point, fine. But is that what you’re like? Is that your only message to people throughout the year is we do cleanings and get in for your cleaning. Would you like to have cleaner teeth? And you know, it’s just blood? I mean, then they just think Well, I mean, yeah, I guess, you know, it’s just like, I mean, I don’t think about Do I need my tires filled up? And it’s like I probably do, but I don’t have time for that, you know? And if someone said, Well, how full are your tires? I don’t know. But it’s probably less than ideal, but I don’t care. Like it’s just life will go on with less than ideal tire pressure. And I’m sure you want me to come in and get my tire pressure check. But I don’t have time for that. Right. That’s what people are thinking when they hear Yeah, of our dumb marketing that we sabotage ourselves with what exactly is our message? I said it Reagan, I said it.

SARA: He’s getting feisty today. No, you’re exactly right. So what’s interesting about that, is that how many times have we heard document industry like get really frustrated? Because patients will cancel? And the verbage they use is Oh, well, it’s just a cleaning. And the doctors get frustrated because they’re like, but what they don’t what they fail to realize is that but that’s how the patient feels is that Oh, well. It’s just a cleaning like it’s okay. It’s no big deal. Like I do it twice a year. 

You know, we don’t place the value on the things that that really are important. cleanings. Yes, they are important, right? It’s how we we do a lot of preventative measures. However, when we treat it as like, oh, we’ll get in by Wednesday for your $59 whatever, we’re now taking the value of the importance of what that is. And I do love a call to action, don’t get me wrong. But I also think there’s a way that we can be strategic with a call to action that still creates the value of the dental treatments that we want to portray to all those patients coming in. When we devalue it, then the patient’s then call and cancel their appointment and the verbiage they say every time as well. It’s just a cleaning, I’ll call back later, when my schedule is a little more open, they don’t see the value. So I’m glad you brought that up.

CHAD: You know, something that I realized when I was going from PPO to fee for service was that when I would get a two to one return on the investment. So our ROI was two to one for marketing. I really it had to be a minimum of two to one just because of the insurance write off. So what I thought was cool was and the reason why is because you weren’t collecting everything that you were producing. 

So if you’re if you’re looking at your ROI as far as production based off of it, that might be a pie in the sky number and you need to also factor in it’s like you’re not necessarily collecting on all that production. So if your collection production ratio is 60% then it’s like well then you really needed it. It let’s say it’s 50% just for easy math, then it has to be two to one just to break even But what’s cool is after having switched to fee for service, is it allowed for me to, to get a two to one that actually was beneficial at that point, because my collection and production ratio are the same, then I can actually get a one to one and it’s still profitable, right? 

So it’s just I just thought I’d throw that out there, it’s important for people to think about, are they getting the ROI that they should? And are they tracking that based off of production or collection? And if you’re probably basing it off of production, you should look at what your collection ratio is with production, and factor that into what is your bare minimum ROI that you need it to be?

REGAN: Yep. Oh, you’re exactly right. Yep. That to me, Chad, I think that’s where a lot of that fear and uncertainty and doubt creeps in. Because you’re you’re really not looking at the numbers. So there’s the emotional hook, what you’re actually saying in the market, how you’re presenting yourself in the market. And then there’s the actual reality of knowing, and it can be scary kind of in between that. Now, Sarah, I’ve heard that you are going to be sharing your message live on stage coming up in October. Speaking of uncertainty and doubt, tell us about that.

SARA: Yes, I am, I will be at the smell that the event in in Florida in October, it’s going to be an awesome event, we actually will have an opportunity to you can tune in virtually or you can be in attendance. So there’s several different options, you know, they need to eat, but I will be focusing on marketing, the fear, uncertainty and doubt. And some of the things that we did talk about today are some of the things that I would love to just talk more about within the industry, because I think it is, you know, something that Doc’s very, very much relate to me that hey, I’m not like I trust you. But I’m a little bit scared about this, you know, how can you help me? Or how can we make this a little bit better? So I do think it is much needed. And I’m excited to share that with mini doc. So

CHAD: Yeah. And then naturally to people if they if they want the to go deeper into like discussing how you might be able to help them the productivity workshop and in September, that’s a shameless plug, you know?

SARA: Yeah. Yeah. Have in September, I’ll be there to talking about marketing. It’s my favorite subject. But yeah, we do offer through PDA, which is awesome. A lot of online events, too. We know sometimes it is a little tricky with travel to leave the practice for a few days. But that’s what’s great about the virtual world, right. So we do have a lot of different opportunities for dogs to still get, you know, some more knowledge and some more tools to put in their tool belt.

REGAN: Well, thank you, Sarah, for your time today and Chad, your insights as well and giving people a peek behind your marketing curtain. Sara, if we can leave doctors with one piece of advice. What do you wish all doctors knew about marketing that would make their lives easier?

SARA: Marketing is fun. Let go a little bit and just let the true you show. And you you will always be successful with that. So that would be my advice.