Episode 186 – Innovations! Billing and the Impact on Dental Culture

“A bend in the road is only the end of the road if you fail to turn.” 

~Dr. Roy Shelburne

Dentistry is at a turn in the road. Things have changed more in the past 5-10 years than they did in the previous 20-30. We are moving faster and crazier than before. So what are you going to do? Are you going to stop, or will you follow the changes in the industry?

No one likes change, especially when it comes to practice operation and dealing with your team. But, change is only horrible if you don’t embrace it. With the right mindset, change offers you amazing opportunities if you are willing to embrace it.

We love to make your lives easier! So today we have invited Dr. Roy Shelburne to join us for an insightful, lively conversation about the future of dental billing, the impact billing has on the culture of your office (you’ll be surprised!), and what opportunities you can take advantage of right now. 

If you’re ready to embrace the change and leverage those opportunities in your dental practice, then tune in now as we share: 

• The importance of mindset when it comes to change
• The end of dental billing?
• Areas of low-hanging fruit in your practice

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Regan 0:00
Hi, Dr. Regan Robertson, CCO of Productive Dentist Academy here and I have a question for you. Are you finding it hard to get your team aligned to your vision, but you know, you deserve growth just like everybody else? That’s why we’ve created the PDA productivity workshop. For nearly 20 years, PDA workshops have helped dentists just like you align their teams, get control of scheduling, and create productive practices that they love walking into every day. Just imagine how you will feel when you know your schedule is productive, your systems are humming, and your team is aligned to your vision. It’s simple, but it’s not necessarily easy. We can help visit productivedentist.com/workshop that’s productivedentist.com/workshop to secure your seats now.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 0:46
One of my quotes that I feel that really outlines my life, something that I realized, a bend in the road is only the end of the road if you fail to make the turn. Yeah, and you know all of us have had things in our lives that have caused us to need to pivot. It wasn’t an option, if you didn’t do you’re going to hit a brick wall and I think dentistry in today’s world is at that intersection.

Regan 1:20
Welcome to the Everyday Practices Podcast. I’m Regan Robertson, and my co-host Dr. Chad Johnson and I are on a mission to share the stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods you can take right into your own dental practice. If you’re ready to elevate patient care and produce results that are anything but ordinary, buckle up and listen in.

Regan 1:53
As leaders and dentists, it is literally our job to live in the uncomfortable, to anticipate what changes are coming down the pike for us, and as humans it is, it’s absolutely not certain, there are things that happen to us in life that we cannot predict, even with the best of intentions and Dr. Chad, my co-host is here today. Hi, Chad.

Hello,

he turned me on to a book called “The Obstacle is the Way” which we reviewed a few podcasts ago by Ryan Holiday. In it the, you know, the summation of the book, if there’s one controlling idea is that every single thing that happens to you in your life is an opportunity if you choose to treat it as such and if you recall, I was a little bit a caustic, if you will, thinking well you know what happens if you lose a child or you become paralyzed? And the book slaps you in the face with it and it says, “Yep, this has happened and here’s how people have turned it around.” I heard Dr. Roy Shelburne, who was our guest today years ago on everyday practices and was extremely moved by how Dr. Shelburne has taken his life experiences and pivoted it massively to the benefit of everyone else. So I’m a fan girl, Dr. Shelburne, you’re an honor graduate from Virginia Commonwealth University’s Dental School. In March just for our listeners, real quickly, you were convicted of Healthcare fraud, racketeering, and money laundering. It sounds like a Hollywood movie, you spent 19 months in federal prison. And two months in a halfway house. It sounds so disrespectful to giggle except that we’re here today.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 3:29
So that’s all fun. It sounds more like a Shakespeare tragedy than, but it’s all good

Regan 3:36
What I’m particularly excited about is you’ve really become the subject matter expert, and you openly share with vulnerability, your mistakes and what you’ve learned as a result into, so you can help others avoid these career-ending, you know, errors and so today, we’re talking about what you’re seeing and how the industry itself is pivoting, and how you’re able to help others stay ahead of the curve and it kind of links up both. So we talk about billing and what you see as the innovative innovation space in that and then also how it zips into team culture and how we hold this hand in hand. So welcome to our show, Dr. Roy Shelburne.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 4:17
I am happy to be here. Thank you. One of my quotes that I feel that really outlines my life, something that I realized that a bend in the road is only the end of the road if you fail to make the turn. Yeah and you know, all of us have had things in our lives that have caused us to need to pivot. It wasn’t an option, if you didn’t, you’re going to hit a brick wall and I think dentistry in today’s world is at that intersection. We are moving faster and crazier than ever before. You know the last five to 10 years things have changed more in dentistry than the past 20, 30. I opened my practice in 1981 in my grandfather’s hardware store building and I didn’t wear gloves at that point. AIDS was not something that we realized there were no HIPAA, there were no OSHA and things are changing so drastically in dentistry, not only from the documentation, billing, and coding piece but from practice operations and dealing with team and my crystal ball work, I think it is seven to 10 years dental billing and coding is going to be gone. We’re going to do medical completely and our culture now is so that you’ve hired somebody, you’ve dropped them in that chair, they’re doing dental billing, and to be honest with you, it’s a, it’s complicated, but there are only 620 codes, there are 10s of 1000s of medical codes, you can’t drop that person in that same seat and say, “Okay, you’re gonna want to do billing now because if it’s tied to medical, they’re gonna be lost forever,” and you’re gonna lose so much money, it is unbelievable when you can actually in all, and you’ll make more billing to medical because the medical reimbursement is much better than Dental.

Dr. Chad Johnson 6:23
I took a class from Chris Firoozeh regarding that, and that was eight years ago and every time we try and get our feet into medical billing, we fail.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 6:39
Of course you do, you don’t have the tools you need.

Dr. Chad Johnson 6:45
Yeah, well, and I almost feel like we do, but then it’s the attitude, like, you know, to like, as an office, we go, we can’t do this and, you know, so we do the LMN, you know, it’s kind of stuff, we do the you know, so we’ve tried that all and then it just seems to always come back to, you know, well, this is just such a pain in the butt, screw but I’ll tell you what, his class still was interesting and every time we, we try and make this work, we go, let’s do this and because I think we’ve given it three tries before two or three tries, mostly for sleep apnea kind of stuff, I think. But even Chris Firoozeh, when he was talking about it, he was talking about trying to do implants, as bone stabilizers and, and stuff like that, right, and I was like, “Okay, interesting, let’s give this a try,” and it’s kind of neat to know that with exams, you know, if you check off the list of what different stuff that you’re doing, that you should be able to get exams done. So theoretically, I’m all on board, I’m just too ill-prepared, like you said, to be able to take it to completion

Dr. Roy Shelburne 8:03
And to be honest with you, there needs to be a closer association with their doctors. So if there is a situation in their life and in their history with either their primary care doctor or the specialists who tee it up, it’s kind of like, they have this issue, which has led to this, this and this, no, by the way, we need to also address your oral condition, and direct that tooand if you have a patient in the chair with an issue, that, for example, the implants and they have failure to thrive or if they’re older person their bone is resorting and they need to maintain that tie back to the medical. It always has to have a medical reason for moving forward and we in dentistry have been horrible about diagnosing. We are reimbursed based on the services we provide, who cares what the diagnosis is, right? Medical, completely opposite, you have to turn it upside down and be aware that there’s a medical condition primarily that led to the situation that patient is now experiencing that needs to be treated and if you turn it upside down, based on the medical condition, and if you have a relationship with a patient’s, with a patient’s doctor, you can call their medical biller and ask them for their diagnosis coding and I will guarantee you they will give you soup to nuts as far as all the diagnosis codes, and you’re going to be able to use those to plug into your dental billing so that then frees up the treatment that you provide based on treating that condition the patient has

Dr. Chad Johnson 9:51
So that’s the case I see two low-hanging fruit paradontics.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 9:56
Yes,

Dr. Chad Johnson 9:58
And airway sleep apnea.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 10:01
Yes, Sleep Apnea is the most consistently paid, and it’s easiest to get reimbursed but you have to know what the criterion is prior to most of the medical payers will require a certified sleep study, yes, prior to, and many of them will also need documentation, the patient has not been able to tolerate the conventional CPAP and that being the case, the gold standard is getting a referral letter from a sleep apnea specialist and if you have any of those in your area, knock on the door, or have one of your representatives knock on the door and say, “Hey, we provide Dental Sleep Apnea appliances for your patients who are noncompliant or unable to tolerate their sleep apnea devices, would that be something that you would think would be important for you to be able to make that referral?” And if you have that connection, I have three dental practices that basically all they do now is sleep apnea appliance from referrals from their, their associate with that sleep apnea doctor, so it’s just a matter of making that connection? Dr. Rowe, you’ll

Dr. Chad Johnson 11:18
Dr. Roy you will find this interesting. I self treated my, my sleep apnea. I am so surprised. I know. Not so. Right. So I I don’t have my age, I was seven. You know, it’s it’s quite mild but at the same time, I didn’t want to wait until a full-out disease state right to address it. And so I, I made myself an oral appliance and I was amazed. Like, at first I didn’t feel like it was making too big a deal but then Sarah was like you’re not snoring all night and even I would wake up on my back because I try and sleep on my side to. Not because it was the most comfortable position per se though you get used to it, some people I did but that’s not traditionally how I slept. I did that. So that way I’d have a more paitent airway as I was getting older, I think from age 30 is when I really really started to notice it and so then I I started realizing that I was sleeping all the way through the night and I also I was recently I’ve started mouth taping and so that way I do nasal breathing. Yeah, there also appreciates that I’m sure. Yeah, you know, yeah,

Regan 12:41
You tape your mouth while you sleep, save your mouth. So I could not it doesn’t make you feel claustrophobic or anything, you’re fine with it?

Dr. Chad Johnson 12:49
I’m crazy. So like I can get away with it. I’m sure some people might have difficulty with that and furthermore, if you have sinus and cold issues or allergy issues, you’re going to have a tough time. So you would take time off, I imagine unless you could, you know, get some I’ve even seen products for patency of your air your nasal passageway you know that you could open it up and so like there are workarounds, but if you didn’t then find so be it but when I did that, I found that I I’ve been waking up like earlier and earlier because I’m actually getting a whole night’s sleep in within a few hours. So I’ll wake up after five hours of restful sleep. And I’ll be like, shoot, I’m ready for the day because normally what would take seven, eight hours and for other people, they can’t get it after 12 hours. I mean, you know, but I thought it was interesting that I’ve I’m a big fan of this mostly because I’ve seen the improvements for myself, like firsthand. So have you had any? Like personally, I’m just kind of curious. Have you ever had any airway issues?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 13:56
I snore like a freight train but I also sleep fairly well as sleep study. I don’t. I didn’t, but not to the point where it is affecting my breathing my pet. Yes.

Dr. Chad Johnson 14:11
So you have snoring but no apnea, correct?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 14:15
Yeah and that would not be reimbursable from the dental or medical cover. Yeah, of course, our dental codes now for sleep apnea appliances and their modification and maintenance but those not they’ll never get paid from dental because it’s it’s considered medical first. There are a lot of things that will get paid very consistently by medical, Sleep apnea is one of them. Secondarily, any trauma will be covered with the medical as well. A lot of surgery, surgery, oral surgery, as far as the wisdom teeth removal and in fact, you’ll probably find in a lot of cases if you’re doing some surgical extractions or wisdom teeth extractions, that when you submit the claim into medical, they say before we consider paying this through our dental you’re gonna have submitted to your medical first and that’s doing two things. Insurance companies do what they do for what reason?

Dr. Chad Johnson 15:20
To not pay out

Dr. Roy Shelburne 15:21
It’s all about the money, they are shareholders. So, you know, we were talking about the perfect storm and we’re in a perfect storm as far as moving from dental billing, to medical billing. Insurance companies, if they provide coverage for medical and dental, there are two separate divisions. So they are having to support two separate entities and it’s twice as expensive for them to do that and there are now expanded codes in the ICD set that have expanded so that most of the procedures that we provide in dentistry can now be coded using the ICD codes, which makes it possible to bill all air medical procedures to our excuse me dental procedures to Medical and they, the American Dental Association understands that there are gaps in the current coding system. So they have actually commissioned a whole different group of coding specialists to try to put together a coding system that to be honest with you kind of resembles the medical. So why would you reinvent the wheel if there’s something that exists that can already describe that? And I’m going to be very blunt and honest here, the reason why the American Dental Association is trying so hard to modify the existing system so that it is expanded and will resemble the medical is that the largest revenue producer for the American Dental Association, aside from dues is the use of the codes. The American Dental Association owns those codes. Yeah, the American Dental Association Association uses those codes, or owns those codes, right, do when Dentrix or Paterson load those codes into their softwares, they have to pay a royalty to the American Dental Association to use those.

Regan 17:49
I did not know that

Dr. Roy Shelburne 17:50
Oh, me as a speaker, I have to be licensed to use their codes and a percentage of what I make speaking goes to the American Dental Association. So there is a huge revenue associated with the codes, the dental codes. So they are very concerned about Genesee’s nose, because that as a huge revenue producer and like I said, I’m being very, very transparent here. I’m an ADA member, I love what they do. They’re very supportive, they were supportive of me. But they are very possessive of those codes and will give them up kicking and screaming

Dr. Chad Johnson
It would be in their best interest to do that. I mean, going thing, the separate coding says that they Oh, yes.

Dr. Chad Johnson 18:27
What I’ve also found interesting about this dynamic is to think that Delta doesn’t have a medical wing to it. So, you know, what would happen to Delta, would they be absorbed, you know, join with another company. So any two cents on that?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 18:42
Oh, I love this question. So, you know, Delta does not have a medical wing and one of the things that they have done is they have made it so that if the, they’ve sold their network insurance companies. So that in the event that it makes that transition, they will be able to transition for example. MetLife has a medical Delta doesn’t so Okay, how about if we share our network with you building that, that network and they also in some states made it mandatory that you become in network with the Medicare Medicaid so that there again, the network is expanding? So yeah, Delta would be apt, but can they make a pivot and become medical billers and probably so and will they do that? Although they probably made enough money back and retire, it won’t make any difference. It’s an opportunity. Honestly, a lot of people I think it’s it’s something horrible, it’s it is what it is. It’s it’s horrible if you don’t embrace it, it’s wonderful if you jump in and navigate it and at the end of the day, when you go home things, something has changed something different and you’ve dealt with it that’s something that you can celebrate and we need to do more of that we need to do more innovation, we need to realize that things are not going to remain the same. We need to understand that moving forward is something that if you want to be successful, you not only have to do but you should want to do

Regan 20:44
That, that part right there, when we look at at your prediction of you know, just like the consolidation in dentistry, the potential move from going away from dental billing and merging it into medical billing. To me as a non-dentist, the perspective that I share with excitement is wouldn’t that mean the proclivity is that the right word, the proclivity towards thinking of the body holistically come more into play, so we can actually look at the oral-systemic connection?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 21:17
Now, just just like dentists think about, we focus on this part and we kind of can lose sense that there’s other parts of the body that are connected and this draws us into, “Oh, by the way, that physician has diagnosed this, which has an effect on their oral system And oh, by the way, that’s not just a dental that is a systemic issue,” and we, when we look at that diagnosis, number one, treatment, what do we provide and then once we provide that, how do we go ahead and get that reimbursed in a way that is cognizant of how the patient presents and provides coverage for that dentist and the patient that is reasonable? I think it’s moving in that direction. We, you know, we’re talking about how things are changing and how people perceive dentistry, wouldn’t you like to be perceived as a doctor, part of the team as a specialist? Rather than being, “Oh, you’re just a dentist?” No, I’m a dental specialist. You have your primary care doctor here. I can’t and to be honest with you, if you, I had, ER doctors as patients, and they thanked me thank you for providing care to our patients, because they have no idea of what’s going on and can we be part of that circle of care for our patients as a doctor, not just a dentist, and before our patients will realize that and embrace that we have to realize that and embracing ourselves, as dentists. We can be second-class citizens, we are a physician, we have our system and when we set ourselves aside, either by our thoughts or the whole billing system, we are making ourselves separate from so why would you do that? Why would we not want to move forward and be part of that global community that takes care of our patients?

Regan 23:25
Is it, do you think it’s a lack of desire, though, to move forward? Or is it a lack of unsure how to navigate those waters successfully?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 23:33
Yes. To both, yes. Yeah. There’s, it’s kind of like we’re adopted children in the medical profession. It’s like we’re, I guess, unnecessary aggravation, because they don’t know or understand and they go, “You go do this,” rather than having that open conversation and making a referral and doing it in a professional way And to be honest with you, you know, one of my pet peeves is documentation. I didn’t document very well, had I done better documentation, would I have been better protected? Absolutely, but if you look at a documentation from a physician, as far as the treatment and the diagnosis and all that and compare that to most dentals, it looks like a doctor did this one and a third grader did this one, which reduces the F statue in the medical community. So we need to elevate so many areas in dentistry to be that part of the whole medical community and oh, by the way, the electronic health record, which is mandated by our physicians, you can go online you can get all your information, you can go to the pharmacy, get all your info a nation that is going to become mandated and dentistry that kick the can down the curb for a while, that’s going to be short-lived at some point, you’re going to be part of that community where a patient has the right to go online and get other information. The scary part is the software companies that provide software support and dentistry. You ask them, “Are you working on that portal for our patients to be able to come in?” That’s a hard No. I’m on the dental informatics committee with the American Dental Association who have put together the criterion to establish that connection, what should be available and we invited all the software providers to be a part of that come to the table and we had one that doesn’t shock me. So when that can lands and it’s not kicked down the curb anymore, the fines that are associated with the non-compliance It they’re phenomenal. They’re phenomenal, yet nobody’s aware of but to both you have connections with your physician, so you can go online and get all that information. Yeah. Why in dentistry do we not do that? Right? Why is that not something that is part of the culture?

Regan 26:27
Right, in 1998, I had just got out of high school, I was discussing with one of my friends at the time and said and said you know what we should do with this internet thing, we should make portals so that you can just access all of your medical information at once and all of your providers can see it at once. I thought Roy, this would be the simplest task in 1998 and still, it’s shocking to me that we basically have to force people’s hands through fines to make this a reality.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 26:56
And 2023 Why would you not have access to all that information? It’ll elevate the patient’s knowledge and we’re always trying to make them aware. So there again, baseline in dentistry, people hate to be sold, they love to buy and if you arm them with all that information on the website, if they can access their photos, and their radiographs and be able to see just how horrible the condition of their mouth is, would that elevate their desire to buy that implant over that crown? Whatever that might be, information is so key and picture’s worth 1000 words, why not give them access? Why would we not be banging on our software providers door and go, “Why have you not done this yet? Why this is this is something that we need to be able to provide our patients?” Because it’s a practice practice builder, number one, and as far as having the patients understand their need, and wanting the services that we provide, why would that? Why would we do this? It blows my mind, we wouldn’t want to do that.

Regan 28:12
Do you think that trust is another piece of that because I know I’m I am such an optimistic I’ve worked hard to to form what I consider my independent medical support team, that’s what I call everyone that works on my health and I want all of them talking together. I have vetted them out. I trust them and that is like I would never for a second deal that any of them were trying to sell me something. I believe that they’re working in my best interests. My dentist is not in like, they I don’t think I discuss that particular angle with my dentist, which is interesting that you bring that up like that. Could it be too, I mean, each, you know, there’s like 10 different ways to maybe diagnose a mouth is there that feeling you know, like maybe we would get in some arguments over-diagnosing and treatment plans and Oh, I love this question the kitchen.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 29:04
I asked this question to my lecture attendees. If you gave the same patient records, one patient records to five different dentists how many individual and unique treatment plans would be generated? And they’ll generally have five and I’ll say no, probably seven or 8, one generate one I think about two or three?

Dr. Chad Johnson 29:26
Yes, I was thinking 15 or 20

Dr. Roy Shelburne 29:29
We in dentistry cannot understand there is a continuum what’s acceptable. So one might diagnose and recommend a bridge and other one might a partial mother another might replace that tooth with an implant and we understand that there’s there’s an acceptable range of why patients don’t you know, if they go to three different dentists, they expect the same treatment plan. They just want to know how much the price is going to vary and when they get it, If these bearing treatment plans from A to B, they’re thrown off and the trust goes out the window. So they’re again, gonna go to the documentation piece. So number one is one group is the emergent the patient presents, and they’re going to have a problem with an abscess on tooth number three because there’s a huge confidence filling, that’s group one. Group two is there’s disease processes going on, so you’re having the area’s advocate, it’s not severe, they have periodontal, it’s not severe, that would be group two, and group three would be those things that you recommend to make the patient ideal and when you give them that, then they can kind of compare, “Okay, this was emergent, we need to do this. Now, this is something that we need to do, because there’s a disease process and this could be optional, or something we could put off,” but they don’t see it that way, they see a huge treatment plan. They think it’s I gotta take it all or none and we we kind of lose track, that that is an option and the patients are more willing to accept it. They’re given stages like that but there again, your trust issue, when goes back to if they don’t have access to all their information. Why are you hiding that? Why would you not make this something that I have access to? What’s there that you are so scared that I if I get a copy, I, I’m going to do something weird with it? And that’s the patient’s perception. I don’t believe that as far as dentist, I think we’re very ethical for the most part, but it’s it’s all a matter of the patient perception, so we need to be aware of that too. So be moving forward and making being proactive rather than reactive, the sooner we can get that in our place. Is that also a practice building tool? Yeah. So Sally is with her friends, she’s been to the dentist on Monday, she’s having lunch on Wednesday, she gets an email, oh, by the way, all your information is uploaded, she goes, “Oh, I got my email from my dentist. I got all this information. You want to see my X rays, you’ll see my pictures, you want to see what the dentists did for me?” Is that a way to be able to market your practice? Absolutely and it gives the patient access and feel like they’re part of their treatment where rather than going, “Okay, you’re the patient, you won’t understand anything I’ve written in my chart. So you don’t need any of that information.” So there could be an issue there with trust. Yes.

Dr. Chad Johnson 32:35
So what’s the timeline you see on this? I mean, you know, is this something that you see within the next

Dr. Roy Shelburne 32:41
24 months, as far as it’s going to be mandated? We are so far behind the curve. They’ve already kicked it down the curve, I think three times.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 32:52
Whoa. Yeah, exactly. So

Regan 32:56
Your face, your expression, Chad is beautiful.

Dr. Chad Johnson 32:58
I think I was waiting to hear somewhere between 10 and 20. Yeah. So when you said 24, I was like 24 months, whoa what?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 33:09
In most states have mandated it now for medicine. So why would there again, our legislatures were part of the profession? Pharmacy, same thing.

Dr. Chad Johnson 33:24
When we were talking about medical billing, you were like, what’s, what’s the horizon that you see for that?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 33:34
Dental is going to be out the window and medical is going to be how we bill. So crystal ball seven or 10 years. Hmm, it’ll be phased in during that period, and there again, depending on the procedures, if it would be something that could be billed very specifically in a medical then they’re going to mandate that it be done that way just like surgical extractions or trauma and, you know, the ADA claim form in 2012 Out of the box, Dr. Chad, do you know what that box was that they added? They modified the dental, the dental claim form. No, look, you’re fine. You’re fine. Nobody knows. They added diagnosis codes And there are now eight states that if you take Medicaid required diagnosis codes associated with building to dental, but they have added that box had there not been an intention to use it. So yes, they are. The grounds been tilled, the seeds have been sown and as far as movement in that direction, is it going to happen? Yes, it will.

Dr. Chad Johnson 34:55
So now you have a program, tell me about you know that and when we can learn more about that did rather than just on the podcast, you know as talking about it.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 35:05
But now there’s one thing to say you need to do this and not give them an opportunity, we’ll learn how to do that.

Dr. Chad Johnson 35:12
All right, thanks for coming, everybody. Sucks to be you

Dr. Roy Shelburne 35:18
, I have an association with dental go laggy Delaine delay gelei Who is actually certified to do medical billing but she specializes in dental she and I do a boot camp to help them with their documentation, their diagnosis and we do those periodically, if they’re interested, if they want to reach out to me, they can do that. It’s 16 hours of CE and it moves them from point A to point B so they’re more familiar comfortable with being able to start the process and we provide support for a year. So if you are dipping your toe into the medical billing world, if they have an issue or denied claim, if they go ahead and send us the claim form, we can help them walk through and see if there’s something that they missed or did inappropriately that threw the claim out so it wasn’t paid.

Dr. Chad Johnson 36:15
Is there a website or some kind of

Dr. Roy Shelburne 36:20
Reach out through my website and just send an email and tell, we’re putting together the schedule for the remaining of this year and next year and if they identify the fact that they are part of this podcast, we will have a raffle and we’ll give one away. It’s an $895 value. Yeah, so two-day boot camp. 16 hours CE II. We’ve gotten great reviews and something we enjoy. Oh, yeah.

Regan 37:01
So do you have that, so you know what the website is that people can go to by chance?

Dr. Roy Shelburne 37:05
Sir, it’s mine is

Regan 37:08
That’s our royshelburne.com.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 37:14
You are very good. Most people don’t get that.

Regan 37:22
Well, thank you, Roy for this extended episode. This will likely be another two-part episode as well. Listeners will link these two together so you can listen to Roy’s story and the first one and thank you for so much for sharing your forecast of what’s happening and most importantly, providing a solution and a way out. So 24 months is not a lot of time. We know how it even even seven years is actually not a lot of time. It is not

Dr. Roy Shelburne 37:48
It is not a lot of time true.

Dr. Chad Johnson 37:50
Well, it’s always good to see a buddy.

Dr. Roy Shelburne 37:52
Oh my friend. Thank you. Yeah, good to see you guys. Keep on doing the right thing.

Regan 38:00
Thank you for listening to another episode of Everyday Practices Podcast. Chad and I are here every week. Thanks to our community of listeners just like you and we’d love your help. It would mean the world if you can help spread the word by sharing this episode with a fellow dentist and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify. Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share or feedback on how we can make this podcast even more awesome? Drop us an email at podcast@productivedentist.com and don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from Productive Dentist Academy at productivedentist.com/podcasts See you next week.