Balancing Luxury and Self-Worth in Dentistry (E.245)

“I would give up the purchase of that watch every time if it meant that I could develop more self-worth and understanding.” ~Dr. Maggie Augustyn

In this episode, Everyday Practices Dental Podcast co-hosts Regan Robertson and Dr. Chad Johnson are joined by  Dr. Maggie Augustyn dentist and owner of Happy Tooth in Elmhurst, Illinois. In this episode, they discuss the intricacies of wealth, materialism, and the emotional rollercoaster that sometimes accompanies financial success. Dr. Augustyn shares her personal experiences, from humble beginnings to navigating the complexities of spending on luxury items like Coach bags, Rolex watches, and expensive cars.

They explore the deep-seated guilt that can arise from sudden financial gains, the psychological gymnastics of deciding whether to indulge in extravagance and the powerful impact of shifting your mindset. Dr. Chad candidly talks about his journey of delayed gratification with his Mustang, while Regan emphasizes the importance of finding value beyond material possessions. And of course they touch on the profound realization that some treasures – like healthy, loving relationships – far outweigh anything money can buy.

As you listen to this episode, we want you to think about the following questions:

• How does guilt weigh in on your spending decisions?
• Do you ever experience emotional discomfort when you make significant purchases?
• How clear are you as to whether your purchases are driven by needs or desires?
• What are the long-term rewards of waiting and planning before making significant investments or purchases?

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Regan Robertson: Welcome to Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. I am your host, Regan Robertson, here with the delectable, the delightful, Dr. Chad Johnson. Hi Chad, how you doing today?

Dr. Chad Johnson: I’m doing great and I hope all you doctors out there in Radioland are having a fantabulous Friday or whatever day of the week it is.

Regan Robertson: Today is your podcast trifecta because we have our frequently flying, returning guest, Dr. Maggie Augustine, who has brought us a very selfishly, personally interesting topic that I think will be very on point for many of our dentist listeners. Hi, Maggie. Good morning.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Oh, my favorite part of the day is just about to begin.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yay.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yay

Regan Robertson: So I happen to, I happen to be sporting with me my 10th anniversary. You can’t, if you, if you’re watching on video, you can see this, a beautiful celestial watch that our CEO procured for me. So if you’re at PDA for 10 years, you get a signature piece and I find it to be something that’s very meaningful for me. I always wanted to be at an organization where I could make an impact over a long span of time. So early in my career, I had a lot of colleagues who hopped jobs every couple of years, and I felt very old fashioned. I thought, I just, can I just be at one company and, and achieve great things and have that be a, you know, a happy life and it seemed very in contrast. So this particular piece means a lot to me and Maggie, you just went to London and had some epiphanies that you wanted to bring to the table today and I think that now is the perfect time to do that.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Look, it’s you pointing to your watch. So I, I. I found myself in it and it wasn’t intended though. I wanted to end up there. There’s a street in London. Um, and I spend most of my time in London, walking around, just mesmerized. I love people-watching. I love the architecture. I love the feeling. I love the weather, even though it was raining on and off. Just the idea of taking an umbrella with you is so romantic. Um, but I found myself in a place called Bond Street, which is this narrow road, a little bit hidden almost and as you walk in there, you just start to see these stores one by one. Tiffany’s, Harry Winston’s, you know, uh, Louis Vuitton, Chanel, everything that you can think of and I walk, you know, similar to these places in Las Vegas like that. There’s places in New York like that. There’s places in LA like that. There’s Michigan Avenue in Chicago and so I found myself walking through that and one of the bucket list items that I had, even though this trip was a bucket list item also, it was the first biggest trip that my family and I took together. Um, was to spend a little bit of luxury money on Bond Street, um, and buy myself something nice and as I kept walking store to store, I would see, like this one example that I, that I give, and this will end up being an article that will be published in my column in Dentistry Today, but I, I watch a mom, um, um, probably a little bit younger than me of a daughter that was about my daughter’s age, which is about 14 and they’re picking out a new Chanel bag and they’ve got lots of different bags around them and I’m thinking, “Wow, what a life it must be that you’ve got this 14-year-old choosing between two different Chanel bag colors when it’s taking me an entire lifetime to maybe possibly get to a point where I have saved enough money.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Um, where I could buy my own, I don’t know, five, six, 7000 pound bag, right?” And so I, I’m really moved by that and then I start to wonder as I, as I, as I think about spending my own money, why am I doing this? Why, why am I choosing to spend so much money on something? What is it that I’m going to get back from that? Because the other times that I’ve spent significant amount of money, what you start to notice, if you really pay attention, is that the high it’s a, it’s a high, right? When you buy that, when you take it home, when you start to use it and wear it. That high doesn’t last and then I started to think is the more money you spend is the high higher. If you save for longer is the high higher? Uh, does it last longer? And what I ended up coming up with. As I started to think about all of that is the question of when we buy these things for ourselves, when we say for them, or maybe when we don’t, do we do this so that we feel special or do we do this because we want other people to think that we are special? And that was a huge awakening for me. Enough so that I walked away from Bond Street without buying anything, but instead I got this experience of making a decision not to, uh, which I did not expect to make and then truth, I think it’s been a higher that’s lasted longer than had I actually put that Chanel bag on my credit card and so, uh, and understanding how big the question for me was, do we realize that when we do that, it’s not about us being special. It’s about wanting to appear special to other people. Um, and I wanted to bring that front and center to talk about, to see whether or not other people feel the same way and even what you talked about with the watch, my, my father in law got a watch for 30 years. He got a Rolex watch for 30 years being with the company. When someone’s 15 years with, with, with Happy Tooth, we give them something from Louis Vuitton. I mean, and that goes, those things are very special, but why do we do this? Why do we buy luxury goods? What is so special about it? So I, I really would like to hear your thoughts on this and see where you’re coming from. What do guys spend their money on Chad? Like, what do you guys want other than cars?

Dr. Chad Johnson: Cars, depending on the person, cars, guns. Um, I mean, you know, stuff like even knives, boats. Uh, and it would depend on the guy, right? You know, so some, some guys are into none of that. Uh, it could honestly be a tractor, like a riding lawnmower, you know, stuff like that. So, but, but I think totally, I, and I, but I think some of the idea, um, uh, would be as old as time that you want something special and so the luxury is one aspect of specialness. Um, you know, that, uh, even as the Hebrews are leaving, um, the, uh, the wilderness and they cross the Jordan River and, uh, God speaks to them and says, “Set up on the other side of the river, a pile of rocks as a remembrance that this happened and I want you to pick rocks out of the bottom of the river so that way, when people walk by, they go, “These rocks don’t look like they belong here. What, what is the story here? And that there’s something special and historic about it.”” And those rocks didn’t cost those Hebrews anything, but it was definitely special and the specialness is what mattered and these days, if someone were to put a price tag on those rocks, like if they found those rocks, they would be priceless. Uh, but not because the stones were any different than the rock that came from the earth a half a mile up the road. Uh, but they were, I mean, the history behind it. So, you know, the, the 15 years, the 20 years of history is what it commemorates and to me, that’s what’s the most important significance of it and that’s, that’s just a thought off the fly. Regan, what are your thoughts?

Regan Robertson: I have many thoughts. Uh, I like the Rolex reference. So I, I believe Maggie, I, I’ve done some statistical searches, which are really interesting because I, you know, you’re getting into the science of it and you’re asking, you know, “What really is driving us?” And according to luxury Institute 57, Percent of consumers buy these luxury items to demonstrate success to others, which is fairly high since you’re above that 50 mark and 49 percent believe that these items make them feel more confident. Uh, I agree with you. There is a self, I think it’s like, I think it’s a triangle of self-perception and confidence and that’s that, that, um, you know, that, that helps you show up to the world better and, and in this article, which everyone needs to be reading. You know, you talk about the feeling you have of when you wear your symbol, the pieces that symbolize milestones for you and the brand names associated with that. So there’s the self-perception. There’s the, uh, the status that you’re displaying to others. So as you are walking around, that’s definitely showcased and then the neurological effects, which is to me, I would like to spend more time digging into deeply and how long does that dopamine hit last and if it’s more expensive, does it go longer? That I is very intriguing to me that I don’t have an answer to. On top of that, I don’t know if both of you have you heard of quiet luxury or stealth wealth. That is the new, the new wave. Uh, so a million, high millionaires to billionaires have all gone into the path of displaying their wealth in very nonchalant ways. So what was once considered the Harry Winston diamonds and the show pieces that everyone can recognize, is now no longer the best way to demonstrate your wealth. So they’re showing that they’re so above and beyond that they are doing quiet symbols of wealth to each other, for

Dr. Chad Johnson: For  example. I mean, I saw online a basement mansions, you know, so like under,

Regan Robertson: Yes,

Dr. Chad Johnson: Is of wealthy homes that they’re actually digging out third and fourth and fifth. Subterranean levels.

Regan Robertson: Yes and that’s a, that’s a great example of it.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. So it’s, you know, in the reconstruction period after the Civil War, a lot of the South, if you ended up still having money left over, you certainly didn’t want to flaunt it because everyone around you didn’t have it. And so you, the people who were flaunting their wealth were liars and the people who actually had wealth would pretend to be poor for the, for their life. Yeah. Well,

Regan Robertson: Really?

Dr. Chad Johnson: Well, can you imagine if it’s just like, “Hey, that house over there, you know, those people used to have money. They used to be plantation owners,” but then, you know, three doors down, if it’s like, “Oh, those poor people, they used to have wealth. Um, and now they don’t,” but it’s like, nah, in secret, they’ve got it hidden in a basement, in a, uh, or in a, uh, uh, safe or, uh, hidden offshores or something like that, but, you know, so they didn’t want to, but if, if it was found out that they had wealth, guess who’s the target, I mean, you know, you have a whole state of decimated, um, post-civil war. You know, so post-Bellum, um, poverty and, uh, the potential is you have a walker by that is just like, “I’ve got a gun, they’ve got wealth in there. Let’s take it.”

Regan Robertson: Oh, of course. That makes sense. Right. Right. So you want to kind of protect yourself and yes, that makes a lot of sense to me, you know, for this. In this discussion, the watch feature, I kicked it off because in, you know, as I was thinking about it, I’m also 45. So I, uh, it’s been a milestone year for me. I love my watch very much. I went to Charleston with my girlfriends. We were having a girls trip and we were shopping and I found, uh, a Rolex that was just made for my hand. It was perfect. It had the pink, I think it’s the pink oyster. I can’t remember what it’s called Pink face dial, which I loved even more and it turns out that that particular one was spoken for, but they, they took my cell phone number down and sure enough, I think it was like a week later, I received a text message. “We’ve, we have procured a similar one and, uh, you know, would be happy to fit you for it,” and it was like 5, 000, which I thought for a Rolex, that’s a steal. That’s great. Right.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: This must’ve been a while ago cause I don’t know that they sell for 5, 000 anymore.

Regan Robertson: Right. It was, it was, uh, no, it wasn’t that long ago, but anyway, my point to it was even at 5, 000, because you’re totally correct, Maggie, even at that, I think I had to stop and ask myself, “What was this really for?” And I, it took me on a mental journey that was much longer than I thought it was going to be. It was not fleeting. It turned into something that gave me deep reflection and I realized, you know, I have two children that will be going to college. I, I have a home that I cannot wait to fully pay off. Uh, I have goals that on the outside don’t look very, maybe sexy. A paid-off house is a paid-off house. Uh, so it doesn’t display my success to other people, um, but it would feel absolutely incredible inside. So then I started thinking, “wWhy do I want this watch? What does it mean for me? And if I get this watch, does it, what other goals that I may have will it delay or will it delay? And is it worth that?”

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: My favorite part about what you’re saying is that truth be told, we look up to people that have a lot of money. We envy that. Um, we’re designed that way to, to imagine yourself in a scenario where you take your daughter, your young daughter and by her this watch, and you’ve already had three of them is something that we, whether we admit it or not, we kind of aspire to, to a certain extent,

Dr. Chad Johnson: Because she got a B plus on a test.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: But right, because yeah, and if she would have gotten an a, I don’t know what other watch she would have gotten.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Right.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: But I think that the truth is that when you, um, when you’re human and you develop an inhuman development, the experience that Regan just went through that she said lasted longer than she would have expected and, and the gymnastics That your, your head and your mind is playing on you as you’re considering the multi-facets of a decision like that. I think that develops you further in your journey as a human, then going to purchase that watch and, and. I would give up the purchase of that watch every time if it meant that I could develop more self worth and understanding and self-compassion, whatever it is, in these gymnastics, however uncomfortable they are. I think in the end of it, you end up coming further along than had you actually had the money to buy yourself and your daughter matching watches.

Regan Robertson: Yes. Oh, you nailed it. Yes. There’s yes, yes, yes, yes and getting back to the point of where the world is centered on wealth, because wealth equals resources and wealth equals freedom and options, and you, you have a whole lot of flexibility when you are, you know, financially independent and you can carry yourself that way. The symbolism though, in our brains is so, so powerful and I do think about that from a wealth standpoint of passing down to children. So I have, for example, um, I have two pieces from my, I guess it would be my great, great grandma Annie that I obviously never got to meet. Uh, I have a quilt that she made and I have a brooch and the brooch, I wouldn’t say is anything spectacular. It’s, it’s silver. It’s, I think, black onyx, uh, and there is the only photograph that I know of her. It has, she has that, uh, on and I feel extremely special having this momentum because it carries through the generations. Even though I never got to meet her, I know her story and how brave she was, uh, you know, being part of the settlers here and I think that’s incredible. So when I think about special pieces, now we get into what I would consider the real gymnastics. I have also a role of silver quarters from my grandpa, Joe, who I also never got to meet and he was a very successful entrepreneur. He owned, um, a car dealership and he had all different types of businesses. Uh, that was left to me was the role of silver quarters and I have that in my jewelry box and I think about it often and it’s not. It’s just a roll of quarters, you know, it’s just that, right. It’s a roll of silver quarters, but it’s what it symbolizes to me and it was written on it on the outside of the package, Steve Hamill’s first daughter. So it was like, it was for me specifically, even though having never met me and, uh, and that to me is very powerful. So I remind myself often what I’m doing this for. It’s not just for me and it’s not just for my children, it’s for my children’s children and their children and that helped me also shift out of it. So getting back to the point, the Rolex, we loved Rolex, right? Not that that’s bad. That’s not bad in and of itself either. It just made me think about what I’m doing this for, why I’m doing this. I have a very nice timepiece right now. It’s nothing to cry at. It’s very, very nice. That could be the piece that could be special. It’s not necessarily the value or even the brand, but it’s the meaning that’s behind it.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: And so do you think when you find that has a longer-lasting dopamine surge,

Regan Robertson: It’s like a different level of dopamine surge. It’s not the sexy is my word. It’s not the sex, you know, Lamborghinis make tractors, by the way, they make, they make some impressive looking tractors. So yeah, Lamborghini, you

Dr. Chad Johnson: You know the history of Lamborghini, right?

Regan Robertson: No, were they farmers?

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes.

Regan Robertson: Oh, no, I didn’t know that.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. So we’ll go into that another time and you’ll have to ask maybe, uh, you know, ask your hubby about those details. So I’ll, I won’t steal his thunder.

Regan Robertson: My son and husband just toured the Lamborghini factory in Bologna, Italy. So that was there. Yeah, that was one of their big trips. So in other words, it, you know, might not be a Lamborghini and that outward flashy sexiness and the amount of quality that that represents as well but the meaning that you tie to it, I think that that definitely gives you that sustainable. Maybe it’s contentment or satisfaction, Maggie. You’re really, really making me want to dig into this and understand the neurological terms to use because when I think of a dopamine hit that is fleeting, that is something that appeals and maybe that’s our indicator to that this is not for us, and this is perhaps for someone else to see on us.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: You know, there’s this idea, um, and I don’t know how, how well that plays into the whole thing about, um, rich guilt, um, another neurological issue here, a person that, but comes into money quickly and is capable of spending it on luxury goods easily, has a really hard time with that. Uh, there’s a sense of guilt that comes along with coming into money quickly and so that’s just another one of those pieces of the gymnastics. Um, because I mean, essentially my husband and I came from not much, right? Um, our ability, nobody before us was able to spend money on a Rolex, right? So then when we go through these gymnastics or should I, shouldn’t I, how much does guilt play a role in that, you know, and then on the other side of the token, if you buy the Rolex, is that in the celebration of how co how far you’ve come compared to, let’s say your grandfather or, well, at least in my case, right? That was a farmer. Yes. So it, it’s, um, who did not have a Lamborghini tractor? Um, but, but there’s just so many different things that go into what moves us to spend our money on things that are truly unnecessary and we come back to the same question of want versus need and, uh, the manipulation that the word need lays on your mind and whether or not you fall into that.

Regan Robertson: I do not use the word need. I use want and desire and a mindset shift is, is powerful in this. So how we approach wealth, I love so much what you said, the Rolex could be passed down. And it’s that symbol of, I have helped our legacy. I have come farther. I have, um, moved us forward, I guess and, and I think that that is a very, um, powerful piece to, to that. So whether it is a personal item or it’s something greater, like, like selling, you know, um, paying off your home. I think how you shift and think about where you’re putting your resources and what it means to you, just slowing down and giving yourself a little space. So on Bond Street, I know myself, I would be so impulsively tempted and I know you love art so much, Maggie, that I, I, would I would bet the farm and a Lamborghini tractor that you didn’t run into a few things on Bond Street and think I must come home with this. I mean, I bet it blew you. It would blow me away.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: There’s just so many interesting things. Yes, there was, there was old jewelry. There were crowns that were worn by princesses. There were vests, custom-made vests that were made by the same people that made the vests for King Charles. I mean, you know, custom-made shoes. There was so much that was. Um, but when you think about bringing that home, you know, again, I mean, these are stock images from TJ Maxx or Marshall’s, whatever it is. Right. Um, would my life be different?

Regan Robertson: I think your life would be different if you came home with a tiara and wore it.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I would wear that tiara every time I was on this podcast.

Regan Robertson:  Yes.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Stop calling me doctor, I shall be called queen.

Regan Robertson: HRH. I love that. I, yeah, I, I am Chad. I, the, the, I’m trying to think of the Mustang was one element for you or a home in Hawaii would be one, one thing for you that I would see

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes, monumental things. Yes.

Regan Robertson: Your, your pinnacles. Of, of success and I think you like, you know, Like Maggie are also very adept at creating a little bit of space. So that space between when we recognize and respond is so powerful and that’s been my journey for several years and will continue in perpetuity is the Zen nature exists for me in that space to reflect before I pull the trigger and I know you, you got to do that with your, with, with both, with the Mustang and you eventually did get the Mustang.

Dr. Chad Johnson: I feel like dentists are fantastic examples typically of delayed gratification and, um, we spend a good, well, I’ve heard that’s changing, but historically, you know, like, it’s not like you’re rich the day you graduate and you have in mind what your potential could be that someday the dentists that you look up to, you could be that person and as such, some of the materialistic and there’s sometimes it’s just that, and we can call it that, but at the same time, you know, there’s stuff that we want, or we want for our families, for our kids, for our parents, maybe even, uh, for ourselves and, um, we don’t get that right away. Uh, for me, the Mustang was an example where I had a deal with my wife that if our cars were paid off and I could pay for it in cash that I could get one and you know what? It’s not the fanciest of cars, but for me, it was, um, it was, uh, contrarian, uh, tongue in cheek. Like, this is awesome for me. Like, so if someone pulled up and said, “I’m driving a Lamborghini, not a tractor, but like a regular Lamborghini,” I’d be like, “I’m happy for you. I’d rather have the Mustang,” and it’s almost, it’s a sensible splurge. Uh, it’s the, it’s a, it’s a blue collar man’s favorite car and, um, and I liked that and,but yeah, it took me, I mean, here I am. I’m I’m 20 years in, and at some point I wanted a fun car, but I waited 19 ish years, you know, to get that. Um, and then it made it more. Worth it when I have it and I tell people like I feel like there’s two kinds of people Those that say a car just gets you a place and I don’t think they’re wrong and that’s probably a majority of people I find myself Still a year now out 13 months out from getting it still enjoying and looking back at it and having fun reveling in the idea of my vehicle and I’m, I don’t think it’s wrong either way. So sometimes they pit that, you know, like it’s, it’s wrong to not appreciate your car and then other people like it’s wrong to appreciate your car and it’s just like, “No, no, no. I just think there’s two kinds of people, but I’m the kind of person that my mind gets turned on by the idea of enjoying that, that car and coming around a 90 degree turn, you know, and off a 90-degree stop and,”

Regan Robertson: 90 miles an hour.

Dr. Chad Johnson: No, not, not, not in first gear, but maybe second gear hypothetically officer. Um, but you know, like going through a roundabout now with all those coming about in second gear and like, just, “Oh man, looking in the rearview mirror and I’m like 50 to a hundred yards ahead out of the roundabout as someone else. Oh, it’s just delightful.” Um, so yes, I, I, I don’t have the same, you know, like the watch and the purse to me. I can appreciate but it’s not quite the same for me, but I can translate it into other stuff. I see plenty of dentists on Facebook talking about watches. And I’m just like, I think there’s probably some guys that don’t say much about it, like me that are just like, “I don’t get it.” I mean, you know, teach their own, but I don’t get it and, but you know what, if the watch is your thing, where like, you’re just like, no, that here’s what I wanted to wrap up, like my wrap up thought was. So if you have something. That you’re aiming for And perhaps my next big awesome would be like a house in Maui. That would be, you know, like, that would be really cool but, um, it like, if that is what pushes me to keep going when things are hard at times, and even like, it’s just a dumb, you know, you think it’d be like, “Well, don’t you want to help people? Isn’t that enough?” And it’s just like, it should be, but there are times when it’s just really sucky and you just go. “You know what? I’m going to push one day at a time and maybe someday I’ll have that and I’ll look back and it’ll be worth it.” Why? Because the little dopamine hits historically have reminded your mind that at some point it becomes worth it And so the future dopamine hit, like the promise of future self dopamine hit, makes you go, “It’ll be worth it then too.”

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: That’s a really beautiful bow at the, at the end of that is, is turning this. Yes, of course. Take a bow.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I’ll lend you my Tiara.

Dr. Chad Johnson: I’d wear it, you know,

Regan Robertson: Of course he would,

Dr. Maggie Augustyn:  You know, attaching. So it’s not just about going into. Purchase that watch. Uh, maybe it’s not even about the milestone, uh, 45th, 50th birthday. Maybe now we are attaching it to having built our resilience and using that as a symbol that would remind us of the struggle.

Regan Robertson: Yes.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Oh, that’s what you’re saying, right? Yes. Every time you have a really crappy day at work, you’re like, I’m going to get through this because I promised myself that the more times I’m going to get through this, I’m going to get closer to that house in the

Dr. Chad Johnson: In the past that I can get through it and I’m going to do it again. You know, I think there’s a pinnacle of success too. And it would be like King Solomon, the cohelith character in the, uh, in Ecclesiastes in the old Testament. I’ll reference this again. that gets to the point where he’s so super rich, uh, the likes of which we won’t ever see that he says, “Man, under the sun, meaning, you know,” like, except for the eternal perspective, like on this earth, “It’s meaningless.” That’s how he starts out meaningless. You know, this is just meaningless. And, um, I was recently watched Mike Tyson on a YouTube video or something like that, where he was just like, these belts mean nothing to me now. He’s like, “When I was 20, I wanted all these belts. I wanted to, you know, to be the best,” and he’s like, what is he? Six E’s five-ish now 60 and he’s like, “These, these don’t mean a thing to me,” and he had a whole table full of them that he was showing the, the interviewer. And I thought it was fascinating. Not that that’s the truth. Cause I believe it. I believe that’s the truth that he would say it. So that’s when you’ve really come to a point of maturity. There might come a point where we just go, you know, like, let’s say it’s your last week of life and you go, “You know, this watch. In the eternal perspective doesn’t mean anything now it meant something to me and it still means something to me but like in the grand grandest of schemes like Mike Tyson, this doesn’t mean anything I thought it did,” and so like the terminus I suppose that of of us talking about what we’re talking about is There might come a point where I just go “That Mustang got my dopamine hit and it pushed me to the next thing,” and is there value to that? Yes, but then again, in an eternal, eternal perspective, like was there value to it? Maybe the value, the actual value of it was to teach you. That it was worthless. I mean, like, so the bigger the prize and then the afterwards, the bigger, the letdown that you just go, you know, the second-grade trophy that you won for hitting two home runs that year, like, so what it’s cool at the time but then again, like, these are really, these are really hard questions now cause we answered some of the ones where it’s just like, okay, you know, that’s what those things are for but is there even a, like a last terminal one that where it’s just like, this is meaningless.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I had never,

Dr. Chad Johnson: And there’s a value in that.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I had never considered that coming to the realization that these are worthless could be the point that, that, that is mind-blowing to me but I will tell you, uh, after my cancer surgery, I was home alone and I was a mess and I remember laying on the floor, crying, looking around my house, looking at my shoes and I have a lot of shoes and thinking this does not mean anything, but I believed it. I lived it but again, that feeling didn’t last either because I still have more shoes.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Listen, after you get to the top of Half Dome in Yosemite, if you’re going back down and you tell the people that are going to the top, “Hey, it’s not worth going up to the top.” There’s, there’s still ascending. They need to see it for themselves and they’ll enjoy the view and then on the way down go, man, my legs really hurt and so this is just part of the cycle of life is, you know, but I think there is value to going, you know, when I got down to the bottom ninth mile on the return of, of half dome and I was like, “I hope to never do this again.” Now, my human spirit, uh, 10 years later, eight years later, something like that. I’m just like, “maybe I’d take Gabe, my son up to the top. Maybe, maybe that would be fun,” but someone coming back down from half dome top is going, Chad, it’s not worth it, but on the, on the way up that half dome rise, you know, on the chains, you know, you’re like, “Nah, shut up. I’m going,” you know, so you can’t, you almost have to experience it for yourself.

Regan Robertson: There is a podcast called Soul Boom, S O U L B O O M. It’s run by Rainn Wilson and he, you know, Dwight on the office. Yes. I love, love Rainn Wilson. He also has a show, a TV show, I think it’s called the, I don’t know if it’s the Pursuit of Happiness. He visits. happy countries. It’s a very deep, it’s a very deep show. And, um, and I wish I could remember the guest. In fact, maybe I’ll put it in the show notes so people can reference this. There’s a gentleman on there and says, it’s really a sad state of affairs that our whole globe has Whittled down value to one thing and it’s money only. Where did we lose that value on love and community and these other aspects? How do we place value on that when all we have done is whittled it down to money? And I heard that little sound bite and. I sat with myself and really thought about ancestral generational, you know, your genetics as you pass it down and, and you’ve heard of probably, um, generational traumas and we know from a basic scientific level, cells transfer, they transfer information, water carries energy. So what could I leave my, my children if, if it wasn’t money and it wasn’t?

Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah,

Regan Robertson: Thank you And it wasn’t, it was more than that. What could it mean? And I remember In that meditation session I had, what I whittled it down to was if I left one thing, because you’re right, Maggie, none of this matters, it’s great that I get to help doctors and teams. I, I’m very jazzed by that And I know that the ripple effect is powerful, but, but if none of this means anything, the one thing I could leave behind that I thought of was I’d love to show my children what a healthy, loving, functional relationship looks like. If I gave them only one thing And that comes down to what I value and my inner value And Anissa Holmes, you reference in your article, and she says, “Ego is not your amigo.” Yeah. And I’m going to take that with me for the next week, Maggie. I can’t wait to reflect and think about this more. When our ego gets in the way and starts driving, that’s, that’s when we start making, um, I think short burst dopamine hits that maybe don’t sustain us in, in the long run. So this is what you’ve, you’ve got me thinking about Maggie. Thank you.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Very cool.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I think we need to have another podcast on ego alone. I that’s, that’s just another really fascinating component of what makes us multidimensional humans.

Dr. Chad Johnson: With Ryan Holiday.

Regan Robertson: Let’s get Ryan Holiday on. He’s got nothing to do. Yeah.

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: What if we just all message him and see if he responds to any one of us? We’ll do it. Ego is the enemy, right?

Dr. Chad Johnson: I promise all the listeners right now to at least by the end of the day, reach out to him to get on our podcast.  You’re welcome. Now we’ll see if I’m a loser and a nobody and he doesn’t care about me and if so, then he’s the jerk and I’m the victim. I’m just playing around with peeps, but yeah, thanks everyone for being great listeners, Maggie, thank you number one, for sharing the article, because for posterity sake, that will go beyond this podcast and the reach of that and that’s pretty cool and for coming on here and discussing it as well. Hopefully the, in the dialogue, um, workshop, you know, in the workshop of being able to dialogue with people sitting around in the same sandbox and pounding out ideas, uh, it makes us all better people and hopefully the listeners got the benefit from that as well.

Regan Robertson: Amazing. Friendly reminder before we sign off, if you’ve enjoyed Dr. Maggie Augustine today, you can see her live and in action at PDA’s 20th-anniversary conference happening September 12th to the 14th in Frisco, Texas. We are nearing sold out, however. So head over to protectivedentist.com today and you can secure your seats.

Dr. Chad Johnson: Reminder to the Frisco that Frisco, if you’re like, why would I go to Frisco, Texas? It’s the Dallas Fort Worth area. So super major airport right nearby. It just has the best restaurants there. So,

Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah, I figured that barbecue reference was coming at some point.

Dr. Chad Johnson: That’s right. Everyone have a great day until the next episode. Take care.