Episode 250: Reigniting Your Vision

“My main requirement or somebody to work for me is: Do you want to be here? Because the second you don’t want to be here, I don’t want you here.” ~Dr. Pamela Maragliano-Muniz

In this episode of Everyday Practices Dental Podcast, host Regan Robertson is joined by Dental Economics Chief Editor Dr. Pamela Maragliano-Muniz, who is also a seasoned prosthodontist, and they discuss the real challenges of running a dental practice during difficult times. Dr. Maragliano-Muniz opens up about her journey through the pandemic, revealing how it forced her to reevaluate her practice, her team, and her own professional values.

This conversation goes beyond typical business talk, as Dr. Maragliano-Muniz candidly shares the struggles and tough decisions she had to make—like replacing her entire team—to align her practice with her vision of patient care and personal fulfillment. She discusses the importance of having a clear mission and the courage it takes to uphold it, even when it means making difficult changes.

If you’re a practice owner feeling the weight of leadership, or if you’re simply curious about the behind-the-scenes realities of creating a thriving dental practice, this episode is a must-listen. Dr. Maragliano-Muniz’s story is not just about survival; it’s about transformation, resilience, and the pursuit of excellence in both personal and professional life.

As you listen to this episode, we want you to think about the following questions:

• Am I surrounding myself with a team that truly aligns with my values and vision, or am I compromising on what’s important to keep things running?
• How do I handle moments of crisis or reflection in my professional life?
• Is my practice thriving, or is it time to re-evaluate and make bold changes to align with my core values?

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: My main requirement or somebody to work for me is, do you want to be here? Because the second, no matter how great you are, the second you don’t want to be here, I don’t want you here. I want people who want to come here every day.

[00:00:19] Regan Robertson: Welcome to the Everyday Practices Podcast. I’m Regan Robertson and my cohost, Dr. Chad Johnson, and I are on a mission to share the stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods that you can take right into your own dental practice. If you’re ready to elevate patient care and produce results that are anything but ordinary buckle up and listen in.

[00:00:46] Regan Robertson: Doctor, are you living the dream or just dreaming of living? It is my honor to announce the PDA 20th Anniversary Special Conference this September 12th to the 14th in Frisco, Texas. The nation’s leading course on dental practice growth. If you feel isolated as a leader who is frustrated that your schedule is unproductive, maybe your team is disjointed or your systems are inefficient. This is the conference for you. The PDA 20th Anniversary Conference has all new features, including keynote speaker, Emmitt Smith, who is a pro football hall of fame, running back and entrepreneur. You can choose your own educational track to customize your learning experience. Go to www.productivedentist.com and click the pop-up or select Productive Dentist Academy Conference under the Dental CE and Events tab. That’s www.productivedentist.com. Seating is limited. Register today and we look forward to helping you make your dreams become reality.

[00:01:40] Regan Robertson: Welcome to another episode of Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. I am your host, Regan Robertson. Dr. Chad Johnson, my faithful co-host is dentisting, as for normal, probably placing an implant right now and he is going to miss out but can you imagine the opportunity of having a highly respected dentist, educator in the field and speaker with a strong focus on prosthodontics and dental hygiene in the seat with us today, that is Dr. Pamela Miragliano Munez Munez. I really work hard at that. She is joining us today because she is going to be part of our first ever history making media round table coming up at Productive Dentist Academy’s 20th anniversary conference and if you can hear the excitement in my voice, I worked in publishing for a long time. The chance To have Dr. Pamela with us live in Frisco, Texas is such a dream and to have you on the podcast as well, to share your deep insight on what you see for the future of dentistry is going to be a treat for everyone. So Dr. Pamela, welcome.

[00:02:40] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Thank you so much for having me. I’m psyched to be here.

[00:02:43] Regan Robertson: Absolutely. So sometimes I go into these things completely naked. I call it, I have not met you before. So listeners, you are in real time hearing me meet you. I know you were very respected. I love what you do with dental economics, and I’m excited to see you join the likes of Stan Goff and Kevin Henry and, and Duffy to name a few that are going to be at this media round table together, can you tell us, tell me a little bit about yourself? I know you’ll be coming to Seattle soon to study and I went, Oh my gosh, that’s right. You are active in the dental field in addition to your editing duties as well

[00:03:14] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: well. Well, I started as a dental hygienist. I wasn’t a dental hygienist for very long. I basically fell in love, or I guess I was intrigued with dentistry when I first started practicing as a hygienist. So it was sort of like, okay, let’s apply to dental school. So I went off to dental school. I was working for prosthodontist. So I kind of went into dental school thinking, well, if I become a dentist, I must become a prosthodontist because I need to be like them because they’re so great and, um, that’s. Honestly, pure ignorance. I knew nothing about dentistry. Um, it’s just sort of what I was around as a hygienist and so I went to Tufts for dental school, UCLA for prosthodontics. And then, um, after a short stint in California, I moved back to Boston and I started practicing and teaching and all the things because of my hygiene background, the hygienist that I was working with at the practice in Boston, she was really excited about implementing Canberra into the practice and so it was me, but another prosthodontist, Dr. Bob Chapman, who’s amazing and Donna Roberts, we decided to take the protocols from the 2007 California dental associations, October, November journals, and kind of make them work for private practice. So we took those protocols and brought them to the ADA in 2010 and we presented what we did for the adult preventive care practice of the year and we were honored with that recognition. So we went into it really just wanting a plaque on the wall like we were like, just so we can tell our patients what we’re doing is like got the high five from the ADA and little did I know that was going to spark opportunities for lecturing and opportunities for writing. I don’t know why, because it did scare the, you know, what out of me, the thought of lecturing but I also had this thing that I can’t say no out of fear. Like I won’t say no because I’m scared. I can say no because I want to, I could say no because I can’t, or there’s a conflict, but I will not say no. If my reason is fear. So I became a lecturer and, um, basically, and I kept writing and then eventually I was offered this little editorial role with who’s now Endeavor, who is dental economics, but it was with dentistryiq. com back in the day and I did that and it was sort of like one thing led to another led to another. I own a practice in Salem, Massachusetts. I’ve owned it for 10 years. still practice there very much. That’s my primary occupation, but I split my week now between my practice, dental economics magazine, and if I’m lecturing or going to a conference or something, uh, traveling. So it’s a, it’s a juggle, but it’s fun.

[00:05:48] Regan Robertson: I like how you mentioned at first, kind of on the surface, it was, and I don’t believe you that it was to put a plaque on the wall. Like to elicit change and really go for something of that, of that stature it takes, there’s something underneath that drives you and I’m curious what sparked your interest and made you go for that in so much as that led to the lecturing, you can make a tremendous impact in the world, practicing on your patients, and then there’s that little extra factor that says, “Okay, I’m going to go out and I’m going to help other people learn this information.” What was that for you?

[00:06:17] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: I can’t really take the recognition for it. I really can’t. I was an associate in this practice. I was working one day a week. Donna, the hygienist was like super excited about this and she stumbled upon this award and she was like, we should go snd so she and I decided we were going to present Dr. Chapman didn’t couldn’t, didn’t want whatever. It was just the two of us that went and presented snd so the three of us worked on this whole presentation. We also did a research project in the practice associated with it. to identify demographic information, you know, how many carries lesions we could stabilize using these protocols, what these protocols were and the impacts, you know, not only practice impacts, but also, uh, practice management and financial impacts of implementing a preventive program in a restorative dental practice. So to be honest with you, I went into it like, all right, she wants to go do this. I guess I’ll go do this.

[00:07:07] Regan Robertson: You really did. You were like, okay.

[00:07:09] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: This was not like a thing snd then when we were given this recognition, uh, one of the corporate sponsors, part of it was they would allow us to present three webinars snd so we were like, “Oh my gosh, we got to do a webinar,” and I remember distinctly, I had water in case I was thirsty and tea in case I got tired and wine in case I got scared all in front of me. Like, so I had everything I needed like in that moment to get me through that hour and so it was sort of like these webinars led to these other opportunities. It was just sort of like this crazy thing and I thought, “Well, I’m teaching and practicing and this is what I’m going to do,” and I figured that there was a finite time associated with it. I figured, you know, give me like two years, people will get sick of me talking about tooth decay and then I just go back to my regular life. I did not think the whole industry side of things would become my regular  life and here we are.

[00:08:01] Regan Robertson: Wow. I’ve heard it so many times that some of the best leaders are kind of accidental leaders in the space. They don’t crave the limelight, but they do tend to get hooked onto a mission of sorts and that mission can compel you to share information with the world and I can relate to it so personally too. I remember the first time I was given 10 minutes to. To speak in front of the stage and given is an interesting term because I was very nervous. I wanted to on one hand and the second time, you know, I just wanted to hide behind the curtains and thought, just let me do the work and that’ll speak for itself, you know and if you just keep answering that door over and over again, it tends to lead. So take us on a journey. From practicing today, doing a few of those webinars to dental economics. How did this all really lead up to where you are today?

[00:08:44] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: To be honest with you, I feel like it’s a series of not saying no and it’s not like, “Oh, not saying no, I don’t, I can’t say no.” It’s not really that it’s more like as an opportunity presents itself. Even if you don’t know the full story of what that looks like being willing and open to a new opportunity. So I had this job with Dentistry IQ, which was with the. You know, our same publisher now, and I was given opportunities to write and I was also doing product reviews as part of this and I had opportunities to shoot videos. Videos were like so foreign to me back in the day and I was like, “you know what? I don’t, I mean, like, I’m, I’m too fat. Like my skin isn’t good. I’m so pale on video. Like, I mean, I had,”

[00:09:27] Regan Robertson: All the fun limiting beliefs, I guess.

[00:09:30] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Like I have them too, but I was like, “You know what, who cares? Like no one’s going to watch them except for like my parents probably anyway,” and then I also figured it’s a learning opportunity, so I’m just going to learn how to do it and I went from, “Okay, I’m so scared to do this too. I’m just going to like shamelessly do it.” That was something that I learned pretty quickly that helped me even with lecturing is honestly, yes some people I’m sure and it’s just not me. I don’t make this about me. Yep. It’s not about me. None of it’s about me, actually. What it is about is the message. So yes, I might be on a video interviewing somebody, or we might be talking about a product, or I might be sharing whatever and even this podcast, it’s not really about me, it’s about the lessons that can be taken from it. You know what I mean?

[00:10:14] Regan Robertson: Absolutely.

[00:10:15] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: And so even standing up in an audience, whether it’s My smallest audience was four. My largest audience was like 2000.

[00:10:23] Regan Robertson: The small audiences can be tricky.

[00:10:26] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Let me tell you, I could go on and on about that day. That was crazy, but I feel like it’s not about me. It’s about the message. It’s about one person sharing my clinical experiences, and I’m not a researcher. I just like to read and so what I’ve found in research and how I’ve applied that to clinical practice and what that has happened for my practice, if I can share that with other communities, other practices, other practitioners, you think about the trickle down effect of what can happen and especially when it’s coming from a good place, like I just want to get and keep patients healthy It’s not about me. You know, yes, I’ve got a system, I have got to stand there. I’ve got to speak. I have to do these things but at the end of the day, it’s not about me and if you’re sitting in a lecture and the person speaking is so scared that they’re like falling apart up there before your eyes, that’s just like hard to watch and that message can’t get across. So for me, I was like, as soon as I realized, like, I’m going to take all of my nerves and put it on the shelf because it’s not about me. It’s about the message. All of a sudden it made it so much easier and so much more manageable for me to share. Take care.

[00:11:32] Regan Robertson: I connect with that on so many levels. I think it is anybody listening, if you’re especially a dentist who has something to share with others and the nerves get you, I’ll tell you that hack, Pamela of taking yourself out of it, putting the hero’s journey in the appropriate place, which is really the audience. The audience is the hero of their own journey. My little prayer that I do every time before I get up on stage is, “Um, help me give value, help me give something of value and it completely takes me out of it. I am no longer, I’m just a conduit for a message,” and then I stopped focusing on my looks for the day or how I’m presented anything that would make me nervous and, and shaky and yeah, I think speaker to speakers, we don’t want to see anyone on stage floundering and, and feeling uncomfortable because the message 10.

[00:12:14] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Absolutely. I mean, think about the last presidential debate we all unfortunately watched. When things are just hard to watch. It’s not even about the words anymore or the topic or whatever. It’s all of a sudden about something else. That’s just not intended. So I don’t know. I feel like that was something that served me very well and so I have no plans. I don’t make plans. I don’t make five year plans. Like I have no clue what’s going to happen tomorrow, but. I’m here for the ride and I’m here for the journey and so I was with this publisher for a little bit. Um, I didn’t realize they were getting acquired. I ended up, um, not having my contract renewed. I mean, that’s another thing that I think is important and interesting is that not everybody wins all the time. I feel like a lot of people look at people in leadership roles in dentistry or in anywhere and you think like, “Wow, they must have a charmed life” or “Wow, they must be know somebody or something must happen or their life is just easy,” but we could just talk about this whole time about things that didn’t go the way that we’re supposed to go. But my contract wasn’t renewed and I was heartbroken. I was like, what, I love this. I just thought it was over for me. Like, all right, well, back to lecturing, teaching, and. Practicing and that’s just, this is over. And then next thing you know, I was introduced to another publisher and I got picked up and I became chief editor for a dental hygiene magazine and I was like, all right, this is cool. I love this. Um, totally different experience. I was getting studio video experience and just like different organizational experience. So again, all experiences are great. Eventually after a little bit of time, you know, my original publisher was acquired twice, but now things were settling down. So my boss came back to me and was like, “Hey, would you ever come back?” And I was like, “You know what? I loved the team. Yeah, I would consider it,” and so I ended up coming back being editorial director for Dentistry IQ and for dental Academy of CE, which is our CE arm and for me, it kind of spoke to my couple different personalities. Like dentistry IQ is. More conversational commercial, a little bit, um, patient facing where CE is like, you know, speaks to the nerd in me. So I felt like it was kind of a perfect balance. And at that point I’m in my practice and I’m working with dentistry IQ and with days and shooting videos, doing zoom interviews, doing whatever and honestly, at that point I was like, I think that’s it for me. I think I’m done. I think I’ve reached the pinnacle of what I’m going to do and my boss called me in for a meeting and I swear to you because of what had happened a few years before, I was a hundred percent convinced I was getting fired. I told my office manager, I’m like, “Book my Wednesday. It is over for me. I don’t know. This can’t be good,” and that’s when he offered me, um, Dental Economics after Chris Salerno gave his notice and stepped down and so I was shocked and a little overwhelmed at the thought of, you know, I know I own a practice. So therefore business is important, but I don’t consider myself an expert in the field, but it’s amazing how much you could pick up quickly and I’ve loved every second of it and it’s been three years now.

[00:15:17] Regan Robertson: Wow. That’s an incredible journey and I think you’ve got a very strong inner navigational system that helps you ride that wave. I want to underline again too, it’s not just about not saying no, like you said, it’s about if it’s fear related snd I really love that because so many times fear can hold us back from the opportunities and our limiting beliefs can hold us back from those opportunities. So you’ve got a very strong inner voice that has allowed you to open the door to these new opportunities and do you feel that it benefits you in your practice to have these multiple hats you’re wearing? I love how you say that itches being scratched over here snd then, you know, you’ve got the patient facing dentistry IQ. That’s a little more commercial snd that scratches another itch. How has it helped you in your own career to have your ears to what is really going on in the industry in this way?

[00:16:06] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: You know, it’s really funny back in the day and I’d say up until the past couple of years, I kept everything separate. I felt like it’s not my place to tout that I’m teaching at this university in my practice. I shouldn’t be. Sharing my lecturing with my patients. I don’t want them to think I’m gone all the time. Like I just didn’t know really how to navigate that and I would say during the pandemic, I mean, there’s more stories there, but during the pandemic, I kind of just decided I’m so done with boundaries and trying to portray this. Image that is true, but like, isn’t a hundred percent true and who cares if I’m not in the office because I’m lecturing, it’s not like I’m out, just not seeing patients because I don’t want to, right and I decided to just sort of be who I am and let you know who I am and what I’m about and gosh, that served me well. Basically now, yeah, they do reinforce one another. I don’t lead with dental economics to my patients. Like when you come in to see me as your dentist, I’m here. I don’t even talk about it but it’s so interesting how it, it might come up. I might have patients that found me on Instagram and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, what you do so interesting,” or my hygienists were introduced to me kind of one way or another and my first hygienist, basically I kind of revamped my whole clinical team during the pandemic. And so the first hygienist I hired during that time knew me from being a guest on a podcast and so I feel like she was sort of a cheerleader and sort of. So, um, yeah, I know who she is, they’re like, “No, no, no, you don’t understand. Like, do you know that she does all these things,” and patients, these patients have been mine for years and they were like, no. And so all of a sudden, in a way it’s allowed them to get to know me better as their clinician and I also feel like no matter what you do in the industry side of things, I think it’s better if you’re still practicing, you know, you can easily forget what it’s like if you’re not practicing and so I feel like, yeah, I mean, I would love to be editor until I die, but I feel like at the same time. I, I think I will always understand the challenges and what’s going on in the economic climate of that moment, if I’m still a practice owner. So I do think practicing will always reinforce anything you’re doing in the industry and obviously when it comes to lecturing and lecturing on clinical topics, you gotta walk the walk, you know?

[00:18:34] Regan Robertson: Absolutely. I’ve seen in the last decade, a shift towards more authenticity, authenticity and marketing authenticity in ourselves and it feels to me, especially post pandemic, almost a hockey stick upwards of the need to be authentic in ourselves and how, how we show up together and not just for our industry and all, but how we show up to our patients that way and your story with the hygienist reminds me a lot of the video, the first follower, I don’t know if it’s called that. It’s very, it’s on YouTube. It’s quite famous and it shows this really. Silly man who’s dancing at a concert on a, like a grassy Hill, and he’s all by himself and he’s doing this really funny, weird dance and everyone’s kind of looking at him and it’s all about being a great leader and the leader it’s in and of itself on its own really has no power. The power in this particular video, there’s probably a Ted talk on it too, is about the first follower and you’ve mentioned your hygienist a couple of times, the hygienist early on and the hygienist now that helped sort of toot your horn because you’re humble and when would it come up in conversation? I can see you being passionate about the patient and you seem very present. So, uh, that authenticity and that presence shows up, but having that first follower is pretty powerful. I’m curious from your perspective, because I don’t know in, in DE or any of the publications, do you see a movement in, in authenticity as far as topics being talked about?

[00:19:49] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz:  Most definitely, especially when it comes to social media. I know on my podcast, I have with Dr. David Rice. When we talk to somebody who’s got incredible success in social media, they are who they are and it’s about authenticity and it’s funny that there are people that are seemingly successful on social media.  I mean, you can buy followers, you can buy likes, you can buy things, you can even Photoshop your photos. I mean, you can do anything and it’s amazing how untrue a lot of things online and on social media are but if you actually talk to somebody who knows how to make it happen. It’s just because they are who they are and they’re unapologetic about it and they just have a clever way of sharing their perspective on a topic or what’s going on in the industry or whatever but it’s really about just letting who you are shine, which is not always easy and I know it’s a little scary because. I sometimes see things online when somebody posts things that are incredibly private and vulnerable. I already know, like, I would never do that but at the same time, if you have people that are there to support you and people that are, you know, you lean on your followers for that, I guess that’s what works for you, you know, and I think that people have those followings because they crave that vulnerability. You just have to kind of ride it out and let your followers like follow you because of who you are, because they’re probably your kind of people. I’m sure there’s a few haters that follow people like hate follows, but like, no one cares about that. It’s just something that takes time and it takes authenticity to the next level.

[00:21:25] Regan Robertson: Yes, I agree with that. I really love the idea of admitting, you know, that it’s not always easy. I think there’s so many times in running a practice or a business or even our own personal brand, it’s so easy to see the other side of it and hear someone say, “Just do one, two, three.” I think it’s incredibly difficult for many people to turn off the fear response in particular and I’m curious. If you sit with yourself for a minute, was that something you felt that you’ve always had the ability to do, to turn off that?

[00:21:55] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: No, and I would say I don’t do it really now all the time either. I feel like for me, the pandemic was a big deal personally and professionally. I’m a workaholic. Like I feel like my spirit animal is a cockroach. Like I am going to find a job and I’m just going to carry on.

[00:22:13] Regan Robertson: Squeeze into anything. Space and you are completely resilient. .

[00:22:17] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Yeah. Like I feel like, you know, step on me with your boot. I’m gonna like wake up and I’m gonna go like, find another job or find something else to eat or whatever. Like I’ve, I’ve always worked in dental school. I was a hygienist, so I like worked on weekend. Like I’ve always kind of multitask. So I guess like that’s kind of in my DNA and so me owning a practice, you know, when I bought my practice, I was just, you know, a few years into lecturing a few years into writing. So I, I had this whole thing happening all kind of at the same time and so when I bought my practice, I was already starting the juggle and I never took time off, you know, and I, I’ve never had that much time to reflect on what’s going on and so I did what I needed to do, act how I felt I needed to act to keep my practice going. I wanted to see it grow every year was a growing leaps and bounds. Absolutely not but at the same time, I could also use lecturing as almost a compensation mechanism. Like, you want me to be in California on a Tuesday? Hell yeah, I can go! Because my practice wasn’t thriving. The people around me weren’t passionate. They were the people of the previous owner.

[00:23:23] Regan Robertson: Oh,

[00:23:24] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: So I had only replaced a couple of people during that time, but when I had three months off to really reflect, I learned very quickly who was there for me and the practice and who wasn’t. And it was literally my office manager, Brittany. She’s like, The best thing ever. She’s my ride or die snd so it was me and Brittany and everybody else did not care. I would try to host zoom meetings to go over infection control and things we were buying and things we were doing and people would show up in bathing suits and you know, they’d be so scared that they like their only thing they could talk about was disinfecting their credit cards and I was like, You know, and it just seemed very evident to me that I needed to replace everybody. I,

[00:24:03] Regan Robertson: Was that a heavy thought? Was that, uh, did you feel isolated or alone? I think if I think of my own team, I, I adore my team, I’ve worked really hard to cultivate a team. The thought of, you know, everyone would be, I’d have to sit with that for a minute. That’s heavy.

[00:24:17] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: I feel like it was. Like a, I call it my like Jerry Maguire moment, you know, like where you’re like, you wake up in the middle of the night, like sweating and you’re like, you just feel like it has to be different. You know, I wanted to come back different. I didn’t just want to like, come back. I’ve, you know, at this point it’s now 2020, I’ve been lecturing for 10 years about prevention. My patients should be getting healthier and they’re not.

[00:24:39] Regan Robertson: Oh, okay.

[00:24:41] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: You know, we should be like the, the premier office for preventative and I feel like there was also this, this disconnect and I think a lot of dentists will resonate with this. I spend a lot of money and time on my own professional development and my own CE and I go to hands on courses and I continually want to learn. So it’s not like my learning is reading dental economics and that’s where it begins and ends. No, I’m a prosthodontist. I still want to go to prost conferences. I want to always improve my own skills. So I invest in myself, but who’s keeping my patients healthy? Like who’s helping with that? And there, there was just nobody there and it is isolating and I just felt like, you know what? I’m a middle child. I get along with everybody. Why am I not relying on my own personality and my own skills and my own value systems to create this practice that I’ve always wanted, what I thought was going to happen in 2014 and what my practice looked like in 2020, we’re like nowhere near recognizable from one another and

[00:25:40] Regan Robertson: So you were launched into a new hero’s journey of sorts. You had no choice but to stop for those three months and reflect on that.

[00:25:46] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Oh yeah. I just knew something had to change. Can I say something really bad on your podcast?

[00:25:51] Regan Robertson: Yes.

[00:25:52] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Okay. So I was on the phone with my office manager and I said, “You know what, while they’re the nicest people on the planet, if  I walked into my office and never saw their faces again, I would be okay.” I said it differently, but I, you know, whatever.

[00:26:07] Regan Robertson: Edited. It’s PG-rated.

[00:26:09] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Yes and I was like, you know what? So why am I doing this? You know what I mean? And I feel like part of it was confidence. I felt that the previous owner wasn’t there. She hadn’t been there in years. And I felt like keeping the team was the constant that patients would know and I was finally like, if I lose patience because I want to provide better care and the people around me don’t care, then leave. I’m okay with you leaving. I need patients that are here for me and so got rid of everybody. It was literally me and Brittany. Like she thankfully is an office manager, but came from a dental assisting experience. So that poor thing was like assisting and like dealing with the schedule and like dealing with me, it was crazy, but we waited until we found the right person. It was a revolving door for a minute. Like, honestly, if you weren’t the right person, I didn’t care. Like you could be fired at 10 AM and you just walked in at 7:30. I don’t care and but what that’s created now, looking back is the production of my practice has gone. Like it’s becoming like Clifford, the big red dog. I don’t know what to do with it. I now have four hygienists. People can’t find hygienists. I have four and I have some that are like waiting for me to find a way to hire them. I feel like they talk about office culture and it’s really hard, but I think that if you just as a practice owner, number one, create a, like a really heartfelt vision and mission for your practice and also do what makes you happy. Don’t have people in the practice because they’re a warm body because they’re killing your practice. So we just had this happen this week that, um, we thought somebody might leave and my assistant’s like, you know what? No problem. I’ll do the roller skate thing. I’m fine. Like we’ll make it ha like, we’re going to be fine because I now have my people, you know, and I, I feel like, um, we now work as a team. Yes. I’m the owner. I’m the leader. I also feel like everybody’s  empowered to do the best that they can do, and everybody works hard. I respect everybody. Everybody respects me. Everybody cares for patients, works hard, shows up. Finally, I understand when people say, “I love my team or I love going to work.” It took a while to get to that point, but there’s, No looking back at this point.

[00:28:20] Regan Robertson: Wow. The most compelling thing that you’ve said, I think we, we finally got down to bedrock here, looking at your practice from 2014 to 2020 and saying to yourself, “My patients aren’t getting healthier.” When I think of the best movies. In life, when I think of star Wars, when I think of something that has a really compelling mission to it, you took a stand and you also, Chad and I reviewed the book margin a while ago, which is a great book and it talks about the different buckets of yourself, got your professional pieces. You’ve got your intellect and you’ve also got your spiritual self, your mental health, your emotional health and, and I love how simply you explain it, but it’s very layered and it’s very complex. The steps that you went through to identify what was right for you, what was right for your patients. What was right for your team and taking a stand for that, to have that compelling mission first and foremost, and to combine it, Pamela with, this is such an enormous tree and it’s very important for, for all of us to hear again, taking the time and investing in the right areas specifically. So I want to go back one minute to taking a, taking the time to hire the right team and not compromising on that. So the, the one thing you said was, you know, they may have come in at 7:30 in the morning and by 10:30, they were gone. Do you have a set of like a core values or how do you onboard and vet team members? Because now you’re up and running and it sounds like you have a really locked in team that is, they are laser focused on your mission and your vision.

[00:29:47] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: So at first it was trial and error. I will take responsibility for some of this because I didn’t have a vision. I did in my head, but I didn’t have it in the written word and I had, you know, and I imagined what I want my practice to be about, but like you might say it once, but you know, it’s not something that everybody can see and read and hold and feel and sign. So I created a vision and a mission for the practice and now there was somebody we were considering hiring. I want to look at their face when they read it. Are they just sort of skimming over it and like, “I’m going to look at it. I’m reading it and if enough time goes by, I can look up and say, it’s great,” or “Am I reading this and nodding?” And this is where I want to be because my main requirement or somebody to work for me is, do you want to be here? Because the second, no matter how great you are, the second you don’t want to be here, I don’t want you here. I want people who want to come here every day and so you need to know what I’m about. You need to know what the practice is about and you need to be about the same things because if your value system don’t align with mine, it’s never going to work ever and so now I have a whole team of soldiers now around me. They’re almost protective of the practice sense that if somebody isn’t right, they’re like, this isn’t right. Like this isn’t going to work and it’s not a popularity contest. It’s not, you know, whatever. They just know that these people going to care for patients at the level that We all want to care for patients and if that’s missing, it’s evident very quickly and the longer you try to make it work or the longer you just keep them because they’ll show up or they want a paycheck, you know, your patients are suffering and they need to go.

[00:31:35] Regan Robertson: It’s fascinating to me. When we first started this conversation, you said, I don’t, I don’t do one year plans, five year plans. I don’t, I don’t plan. What I see you doing though, is you have a combination. I would say it’s passion, intuition combined with your mission and to me that at times is the emotional piece of it. I always put businesses into two buckets to make great decisions. There’s the data elements. So the numbers, the overhead, the P and L, the business pieces, and then combining it with the heart of it and if you don’t have, if you don’t have strong defined areas in both, it can really hurt the practice and I want to say right now, the biggest myth that I think all of us feel. If you’ve been in business for any amount of time, it doesn’t matter your industry. You will go through hard times again, no matter what and there is no getting to a pinnacle and then it’s smooth sailing from there. Even if you retire, you’re still going to encounter challenges. That’s just part of life. Life is unfair and life will give you challenges no matter what and so just to feel how you explain the team rallying around you, these values. Do they give you confidence that when you hit that snag, when that tangle and that roadblock pops up, you’ve got a crew that’s supporting you and do you have a higher confidence that you will get through this and less scathed, I guess?

[00:32:51] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: I do believe that. I think for starters, again, we already did something major. You know, anybody who was a practice owner prior to 2020 made it through [00:33:00] the biggest long term closure that hopefully your practice ever sees. So in my opinion, I also feel like if I want to take a vacation, I was closed for three months, I can take a week, you know, so I feel like from a mental health, personal wellbeing standpoint, people can take off. So, I mean, the pressure is off at least as far as staff member of mine just had a death in the family, and I’m like, just go. The work will always be here. I’m not saying like never show up, but I feel like we don’t have to be so hard on ourselves, at least as hard as on myself as I was prior to the pandemic. Now I feel like if I want time off, I need time off, let’s just do it and I’m trying to engage my team with that same mindset and hopefully schedule time off with them and for them, you know, another thing that’s interesting was if you don’t love the idea of creating a vision and a mission, I redid my website around the same time and my web designer was like, “All right, I need you to define your practice in three words. So pick  three words that define your practice,” and I found that to be incredibly hard because how can you do that in three words?

[00:34:09] Regan Robertson: Succinct is so, so difficult. We call it key characteristics, or at least when I take doctors through that exercise, and it is, it can be brutal if you don’t have the proper questions. So what did you, I’m excited, what did you come up with?

[00:34:21] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: I came up with evolution. Okay. So to your point of what you said before, like nothing’s ever going to be smooth sailing and I don’t want my practice to ever be smooth sailing. I detest we do this because we’ve always done this and you know, without any checks and balances to see if things work. So evolution, you know, you get a system in place, let’s find something else and keep moving forward. So I will always commit to continued growth for me and my team. So, evolution, excellence, because we should be striving for excellence with every patient every single time, no matter how simple, no matter how much time we have for a phone call, like every aspect of our practice, we should strive for excellence and finally, love, I felt love for what you do. Where you do it, your patience, your craft, yourself, your team, all of those things and I just celebrated my 10 year anniversary of owning my practice and I bought everybody in the practice. I was

[00:35:23] Regan Robertson: I was wondering your necklace. I know we’re doing audio only, but you’ve got a beautiful gold necklace with cursive that

[00:35:28] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: So it ays love on it. So it says love. The O has a heart and the, um, it’s a gold necklace and the O is a rose gold heart and I bought one for everybody on my team to celebrate. My 10 year anniversary, it’s nobody else’s 10 year anniversary, just mine but I wanted them to know that, you know, we’re, we’re doing this together and I feel like, yes, we all wear the same color scrubs and we all wear the same color lab coat and whatever but, you know, I wanted them to have something that was meaningful to me from me to them and I, I just, I wanted them to know that, you know, when I see them by choice wearing their necklace to work, I just, it, it just, it’s really touching and it’s really awesome. So sharing appreciation for one another is very important along the way, you know?And I just, I’m very grateful to my team and I’m grateful that I get to wake up every morning and look forward to my day. It took time. It was a lot of effort and believe me, there were times I second guessed it and questioned what I was doing and all the things, but when you get on the other side of it, gosh, it’s so worth it. It’s so worth it. It’s emotionally worth it. It’s mentally worth it. It’s personally, professionally, it’s financially worth it. So, um, I just wish for everybody that is looking for a change that they don’t do what I did and wait for a pandemic to get that smack in the face to be like, you need to make a change, just take a deep breath, stand up straight, fake it till you make it with the confidence and do what you need to do to be happy.

[00:36:53] Regan Robertson: I think one of the most dangerous things that threatens dentistry right now and threatens healthcare right now is complacency and when I hear those three characteristics, I can see complacency is the villain. It is the enemy. When you tell the story, the potential new team member that sort of lackadaisically skims over, you know, what you put in front of them, it’s that complacency. It’s that complacency, that lack to do more that lack to evolve our care forward and you being on the media panel, what do you see as far as the future of dentistry and two part question, what do you see for the future of dentistry and how can we infuse more love into it?

[00:37:33] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: So I’m fortunate that I get to work with. Some really amazing practice management experts. So what I’m about to say is not because I’m some expert out there. It’s because of what I’ve heard from experts that have been following the economy and following the industry for decades and with DSOs, consolidating practices, with reducing reimbursement rates that’s taking place. There’s really two buckets that dental practices are ultimately going to fall into, and both can be quite successful. One is the PPO roller skate, you know, volume, volume, volume practice. The other is the fee for service boutique, individualized care practice, the people that are going to struggle the most are the people in the middle that are trying to sort of do both. So they’re struggling for either way and there’s a place for both of those. So there’s definitely, of course and so what you need to do is find. where you want to be, you know, like, are you good at the multitasking, multiple columns? Like, did you do like that kind of thing? Or are you like, you know what, no, it is in my personality to know my patients, know their kids, know who they are divorced from. So you don’t schedule them on the same day, like all of those things. It’s like, what do you want to be when you grow up and be unapologetic about it and seek out those opportunities because they are there and so you’ll find that, you know, there’s a lot of pressure and it’s, it’s funny, you look at social media and you’re like, “Oh, you know, I want to do this, but I can’t do it for these fees.” You know, so maybe I just can’t do it at all but if you figure out how you want to practice, where you want to practice, you can be quite successful. But it sounds to me that the future is. Pick a lane because if you’re trying to do all of them, it’s going to be extraordinarily more difficult to be successful.

[00:39:28] Regan Robertson: Thank you, Dr. Pamela. This has been an incredible extended amount of time. I appreciate you giving us so much of you. Um, I look forward to seeing you in September in Frisco at the PDA’s 20th anniversary conference. There are lots of ways it sounds like to follow you and I was excited and embarrassed to know that you have a podcast and I haven’t listened to it yet. So. egg on my face. I’m going to go listen to it now. What is your podcast and how can people find you? Well,

[00:39:54] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz: Well, thank you. So we’re a new podcast. We’re only one year old. Yeah, no, it’s not like it’s been going for 10 years. It’s called Dentistry Unmasked and I co-host it with Dr. David Rice and it is so fun. We like to talk about real things, roll up your sleeves, practical, you know, those kinds of topics. We talk about practice management, clinical, nothing’s really off the table. So it’s been so much fun. It’s one of my favorite things I do. Please follow us on Dentistry Unmasked, but if you’re looking for me specifically, thank you. Um, You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Pamela under Liano. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook. Um, I don’t do anything else. I feel like I can’t handle any more social media things. Um, but I’m certainly findable. Please subscribe to Dental Economics. I see so many chats on social media about topics that we cover and sometimes the advice that’s given just candidly is pure garbage. Sometimes it’s not, but you can’t vet it. You just sort of see this and you’re like, “Oh, you know, they’ve got a big mouth. They’ve got to be right,” and you know what, um, we vet our audience, you know, and we have an editorial advisory board and you’re like, I just feel like magazines and you can get it digitally. It’s, you know, they’re kind of a lost art and, um, I feel like having access to some of the industry’s top experts, like it’s free. Just sign up. Come on.

[00:41:00] Regan Robertson: You just hit a really good point. I know we’re closing out, but you did just hit a very, a point that I’m particularly passionate about, how to vet the quality of information that you are taking in. It is, I have seen, um, my fair share over the years of, I would say masked. I like that it’s dentistry unmasked, uh, uh, masked people who claim to have success and they, they really don’t behind the scenes. So, uh, so being very careful about that and, and having your advisory board is, is a powerful way to ensure that that quality does. I know media et al has really been under, under attack and it’s been struggling for, uh, for years now. So it, it does have its own challenges to it, but I, I thank you. I thank you and. I think, uh, you know, everyone, our media panel that will be here. I, you know, you, um, are identified as, as part of the top echelon of, of what it means to help us evolve as an industry, be engaged together and, um, and I’m looking forward to connecting us, uh, with love also. So that, uh, brings the heart into it. So thank you, Dr. Pamela.

[00:42:18] Dr. Pam Maragliano-Muniz:  Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for inviting me and you were just an amazing interviewer. This was so fun. Thank you.

[00:42:27] Regan Robertson: You’re welcome. Thank you for listening to another episode of Everyday Practices Podcast. Chad and I are here every week. Thanks to our community of listeners, just like you, and we’d love your help. It would mean the world. If you can help spread the word by sharing this episode with a fellow dentist and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify, do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share or feedback on how we can make this podcast happen even more awesome? Drop us an email at podcast@productivedentist.com and don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from Productive Dentist Academy at productivedentist.com/podcasts. See you next week.