Episode 258: Requested Replay: What Kind of Leader Are You?

“I am not the boss of this practice… the mission is the boss of this practice.” ~Dr. Maggie Augustyn

Everyday Practices podcast co-hosts Regan Robertson and Dr. Chad Johnson are joined by Dr. Maggie Augustyn of Happy Tooth (Elmhurst, Illinois) as they discuss office dynamics, creating a supportive culture, and handling office challenges with dignity and grace.

The discussion kicks off with a discussion about the complexities of hiring new team members who might not immediately fit into a dental practice’s culture, and the importance of aligning with the practice’s mission and vision. Throughout this episode, Dr. Augustyn shares practical strategies for fostering a positive work environment and empowering team members to contribute to solutions.

As you listen to this episode, think about the following questions:

• How does my practice approach problem-solving and decision-making?
• What leadership style do I embody, and how does it impact my team dynamics?
• Am I actively investing in my own learning and growth? Am I dedicating time and resources to expanding my skills and knowledge? How does this contribute to the success of my practice?

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Announcer: The Productive Dentist Academy podcast network.

[00:00:02] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It’s a really beautiful way of encouraging and uplifting the people that really are experts in what we’re doing. They’re quiet experts and empowering them to bring their own talents into part of the game.

[00:00:13] Regan Robertson: Welcome to the everyday practices podcast. I’m Regan Robertson and my cohost, Dr. Chad Johnson and I are on a mission to share the stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods. You can take right into your own dental practice. If you’re ready to elevate patient care and produce results that are anything but ordinary buckle up and listen in. Welcome to Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. I am your host Regan Robertson here doing fantastic. I’m going to answer Chad’s question before he even, that’s called handling an objection before it’s an objection. Hi, Chad Johnson. Welcome to our show. Hello. Faithful co-host.

[00:01:06] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yay. Here we are. And we’re excited because we have Dr. Maggie Augustin with us today. Hi. Maggie, how are you doing?

[00:01:15] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I’m great. Thank you.

[00:01:16] Dr. Chad Johnson: Excellent. So you’ve had a fun history lately of office happenings. Let’s open with that open statement. Within, you know, like reason how you’ve handled the scenario, not only with dignity for your teammates, but grace, tell us how that’s gone.

[00:01:37] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I think a lot of you would agree that every now and again, well, when you hire someone and you hire for, let’s say attitude and disposition, and we claim, well, we can teach someone anything that doesn’t always ring as true as we would want to believe it. Some people take much longer to learn and. Other people are just not open to learning. So one of the things that has recently happened in our practice is we, um, we hired a new associate. And we hired a new assistant and I will tell you that neither one of them is working out as dreamlike as I would have preferred to see and In my coaching call with christy from productive dentist academy yesterday. We began to talk about it, but really It became obvious that her and I were not the only ones that had an answer on how to solve this, um, working with, you know, a fairly new associate who is way less of a train wreck than I was when I was practicing at her age. It’s just. There’s there’s some things that we’re very very good at in our practice And teaching that to someone who is so young and may not have been introduced to that. It really becomes a challenge The beauty of this scenario is that every single one of our team members Has I don’t I don’t mean to disparage it but bought into The mission and the vision of the practice and of the pda way And so they we have come to a place where they are looking out You For the mission and the vision of the practice, even when I’m not around. So Victoria Peterson’s question, how long can your practice go without you? In it begins to, um, that timeline begins to extend itself when more and more people within your office take a leadership and an innovator role in solving some of these issues. Um, and so what we did yesterday is we just very honestly came together. I have a small office. Um, well, it’s not really small, but it’s small if you’re talking about hosting 10 people. Um, and so we all sat down in a circle.

[00:03:58] Dr. Chad Johnson: And by all, who do you mean the parties involved or the whole team?

[00:04:02] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: So I had a treatment. I let my other treatment plan coordinator, I gave her the choice of staying or going. My concierge, I let her go, uh, I let my associate go, I let the one assistant go with whom we’re having some of these issues, uh, and the rest of the assistants were present and one of my hygienists was present, the other one is on FMLA leave. And so one of the, one of the things that I have discovered. Not too long ago in my career is that if you want people to innovate and lead physically Position yourself lowest to the ground. So, um, and it’s kind of it’s about dominance And so I sat on the floor and everyone else didn’t Um, so they sat on couches and she was well Maybe one or two people did sit on the floor But the point was that even though i’m the owner or the co-owner I lowered myself below You Where they were to uplift them. I mean, it’s just such a physical display of, I felt funny how it worked and it worked. Yeah.

[00:05:11] Announcer: Yeah.

[00:05:12] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It worked extremely well. And I do that with a lot of patients as a woman, like if you, as a woman dentist, if you position yourself higher than, a traditionally, I don’t know, um, successful male, that interaction doesn’t go well, at least not in my hands.

That doesn’t always go really well. So I had made a decision a long time ago to start putting myself either at their level or a little bit lower. Can I relate to you Maggie?

[00:05:42] Regan Robertson: Please do. Okay, I got, I got, I got a great story because it involves Chad and it makes, so it is, and it’s, it’s considered like one of those, I don’t know if it’s scientifically true, but I assume it is. It’s a psychological hack. They always say that sit taller if you want to intimidate somebody and you see it in movies and whatnot. Well, I don’t know how many, it was many, several workshops ago now. I told Chad, I said, something had hurt my feelings. And I was like, I’m going to tell Chad this hurt my feelings. And I texted him and he’s like, he’s like, Oh, well, let’s, let’s, you know, let’s meet up. So we meet up. And for listeners, I am a beautiful five foot four and Chad, you’re so beautiful. Six foot,

[00:06:20] Dr. Chad Johnson: three foot 40. Um, otherwise known as six foot four. Yes.

[00:06:25] Regan Robertson: So, so to give you guys a great visual, if Chad kneels, like on the ground, he is, his head still is like my height. So he’s very tall individual. Anyway, you immediately won. It was really fascinating. We got together and he’s like, Hey, let’s go sit down. He turns two chairs and sits us down immediately. Not so that he’s over me, but definitely so that he is more on my level and he’s not towering over me talking to me. I don’t know if it was intentional or not. It could have just been to be quiet with each other, but it made it completely just deescalated. Any hurt feelings immediately and I thought, Oh, I mean, it was how silly the whole thing was really silly and it, and it, it, it just took something that I think in other situations could have escalated and, um, and instead it didn’t, it opened up really great open dialogue and it was fascinating. So I love where you’re going with this story, Maggie, that, and that was a

[00:07:15] Dr. Chad Johnson: situation of traditional male unawareness. All it took was for you to be like, Hey, dummy, have you thought of this? And I was like. Oh, I can see what you’re saying. But the eye level hopefully did matter. Oh, it was amazing. I mean, I don’t know if it was intentional. It was, it was, let’s sit down and talk heart to heart. So I maybe for sure there was some kind of feeling like, I don’t wanna be, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:39] Regan Robertson: It was the kindest conflict, Maggie, that I’ve ever experienced, and, and I could say generally with a man, especially, I was very taken aback and it changed. A lot of perspectives for me. It meant a lot to me for sure. But the physical part of it is a piece of it.

[00:07:54] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: And that, that is typical Chad. Um, just to be genuine and wholehearted and sometimes a dummy, but just really no malice whatsoever. Right. So many of our interactions are just like that. There is no malice. No, we’re just, I, my, my business partner calls me the stupidest smart person he’s ever met. Right. I mean, it just, we make these decisions that just don’t make sense to the rest of the world. But at the time that we’re making them, there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with that. And so I was very, um, I remember that I remember the lecture that I went to and, and the speaker said, Men do not like to be talked down to by women. Successful men do not like to be talked down to. by women. So when you’re telling them they’ve got periodontal disease, and if you, if you position yourself a little bit higher, it’s like having their wife nag at them or not put away, putting away their, it’s crazy how it all kind of comes together.

[00:08:56] Regan Robertson: It’s pretty fascinating. I think it’s very fascinating. I’m wondering with this associate and the assistant that you hired, do you think Maggie, it was a case of enthusiastic beginner, like you were excited and everything was going to be amazing. And then you went into disillusioned learner on that. I can’t remember what that, that innovative skill is where it’s like, Oh, here’s the real, real, this isn’t gelling, like, like what we were envisioning. And do you think that, that them not being part of all of that. Mission and key characteristic and daily actions training impacted that negatively. So like you were saying, the team was on the train and they, you’ve got these two passengers that kind of stepped in mid, mid journey.

[00:09:39] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: I think part of it was also, we forgot how long it took us to get here. I think there’s a moment in which you start to take that for granted. Like, okay, well, we’ve been training since 2020.

[00:09:51] Regan Robertson: Yes.

[00:09:52] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: And all of this is, is, you know, we hear the PDA messages in our head. And it was so interesting because as we’re sitting in the circle, they’re, they’re, they’re coming up with these things that we have covered, the things that Bruce and Victoria have said on stage, they’re literally coming out of our mouths because we have began to live them. But the new, our, our new employees have not, this is very new for them. And so in, in, in, in entire truthfulness and honesty, um, I had had a meeting a little while ago with my team saying, I am not the boss of this practice. And this was inspired by Chuck Blakeman, who wrote the book about rehumanizing the workforce, the mission of our practice, which is something that you Reagan have brought into our practice. Of our practice is the boss of this practice. So whatever we do, it’s not about what I want. It’s about staying true to the mission and the vision of the practice. And that’s going to be what leads all of the decisions moving forward. And so we had that meeting before and say, they understood that we made it clear. We have enough room for everybody. We are not here to disparage anybody. We want to lift them up, but let’s talk about solutions. And then I shut up. I am not here to tell you how to solve this. I want you to tell me what you’ve seen work and what are your ideas? And oh my gosh, my heart was so happy because first of all, I, you’ve been to meetings where. Everybody’s just quiet and staring at each other. This was five o’clock Thursday afternoon. We’re talking awkward staring Right. Um,

[00:11:34] Dr. Chad Johnson: i’ll have to remember that.

[00:11:35] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Yeah

[00:11:36] Dr. Chad Johnson: Don’t

[00:11:37] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: remember that

[00:11:38] Regan Robertson: Yeah, no

[00:11:49] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: That looks just like the video that you took the other day chad on on social media about how you were If you if you Please follow Chad’s, um, social media account. It’s, it’s really hilarious. The marketing stuff he does. But so, uh, so we all sat together and one by one, we talked about the issue. Um, for example, one of the things that my associate struggles with very, very much is confidence and confusion. So if you have a missing tooth, she’ll say, let’s do an implant. Let’s do a bridge. Let’s do an implant. Let’s do a bridge. And it’s kind of a dance that she does, but instead of keeping it in her head, she does it in front of the patient. Yep. It’s this and it’s confused because I don’t know what to treat implant. The patient, It’s saying, wait, so which one is it? Right. So what, so, uh, Leslie, our assistant came up with this idea of what if after she does her treatment plan presentation, you pull her aside to a different room and. have her talk all of this thing out, not in front of the patient. Yeah. Decide in a different room how she wants to proceed, tell the assistant there, and then come back and represent to, to the patient. And that was just a phenomenal solution. Um, and so we’ll put it into play already. Yeah. Well, so I’m not at work today. And we just had that meeting yesterday. Oh, wow. This is fresh off. Oh my gosh.

[00:13:15] Regan Robertson: Fresh off the presses. Yeah. And so what a nice way to do a powder pattern interrupt. Okay.

[00:13:21] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. So I’m curious. Um, when you started listening, were people aware? of their, um, were people aware of the problem? Were people aware of solutions already and they just hadn’t dialogued it? Or was it like, what, like, did this hit them? Like, what are you talking about? I’ve noticed things are off, but I, you know, or was it like, okay, let’s all be honest. We know like what, how was that?

[00:13:51] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It was it was more of the latter, you know, as soon as we’ve got two things to talk about we need to Try to lift up our new assistant and we need to figure out what to do With our new associate and as soon as I said those two things They knew exactly what I was talking about, but we did verbalize it to be on the same page Okay, so this is the issue and how are we going to bring everybody into a better place? Um, and tried to find the solutions and, and when Leslie shared her idea, it seemed as if she’d already done it before. Now, I can’t tell you that I have full recollection of whether or not she’d done it before, if this was her idea, but this was her solution. Um, and other, other people understood entirely the problem they had, they had been there, um, and they had tried solving it in their own way. But then the other thing that you’ll see is, despite the fact that they’re, you know, they understand the key characteristics and they understand the vision and the mission. But what’s really important to, um, to appreciate in a relationship like this is, is the barrier of, as the assistant saying, but I’m not a doctor. This is your practice. She’s a doctor. She has the degree. I can’t just go and interrupt her. So there’s some, some, some of the roles that we all hold within our practice that prevent us something from. Feeling empowered to innovate.

[00:15:19] Dr. Chad Johnson: So something I’d recommend to, is I encouraged my team to interrupt me or I gave them permission to, so something as a followup is you might want to tell the associate, you know, like, why don’t you go to, you know, this assistant and mention to them, um, That, you know, Hey, I want to encourage you today. If I get going down that, that hole, can you say, Hey, um, I saw something pop up on the messenger. Can, can, uh, can we talk about this in the hallway real quick? I hate to interrupt you, but you know, and like give them permission to pull them out. For example, when I get talking too long to a patient, which never happens opinion, but there are people on my team who seem to think they need to uphold a schedule. And so Um, in upholding that schedule, if I get going too long, they’ll stop it and say, Hey, you’re needed in op one. And I go, okay. And then they’ll come back like a minute later and be like, Hey, we need you in op one and op two. And then I’ll go, I’m sorry, Jim, obviously I need to get moving. And, and that’s like my excuse. But I told him, I said, if you guys don’t become the bad guy, like at the, in the moment, I probably won’t be able to step out. So like, if I get to use you as a scapegoat and be like, I’m sorry, I’d love to talk to you another 10 minutes, but obviously I need to get back to work. And it’s a, it’s a, it’s a gentle bad guy, you know, but I need some kind of scapegoat to be like, I’m sorry, but I need to get moving. And there are times when I leave the room and I’m like, thank you, you know, cause it was just like, that was not going to end anytime soon, you know, so, um, so my followup recommendation, whether it be via email or in person is to, uh, to tell the associate to give permission to the assistant to be like, Oh my goodness. I just realized something we have in the lab. Can you come to the lab real quick? And I apologize or however that’s going to work out, you know, like finding some kind of like little excuse to be like, Hey doc, I need, uh, like the, the lab, uh, work is set and it’s ready for you. We need to take care of this real quick. And then you can get back to the conversation. Just something, you know, to pull them away. I don’t, you’d almost have to workshop, you know, what works well for them. Uh, but just some kind of excuse. Okay. And then the assistant will feel more empowered that the associate themselves said, I give you permission to do that long rant, but an idea.

[00:17:45] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It’s a really beautiful way of encouraging and uplifting the people that really are experts in what we’re doing. They’re quiet experts and empowering them to bring their own talents into part of the game. Um, and then the entire meeting was kind of. Finished up where we talked about some of these ways that we have, uh, in collaborating, this wasn’t, uh, we’re going to talk behind somebody else’s back, not even a little, it never, it didn’t even feel that way, but you thank everybody for their input and you encourage them and you empower them. Wow. You guys really bring something important to the table. Please don’t stop. And, um, and I think despite it being, you know, six or 5 PM on a Thursday afternoon, I, I think we all left lighter and more hopeful because I went into the meeting with Christie of like, this is just another one of those, you know, poop storms that I’m entering into what is happening now. And it, it, and it really. Turned that mindset, um, that I’d had maybe three hours prior into an entirely different scenario.

[00:18:57] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. What made you You scooped the poop and you turned it into fertilizer.

[00:19:02] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: You know what? That’s a really great way of looking at it. Yeah.

[00:19:07] Regan Robertson: I like lemons into lemonade, but whatever floats your boat, Iowa man.

Hey, I was going to say, we don’t have lemons here in Iowa that

[00:19:14] Dr. Chad Johnson: we grow, so I suppose we’re just making it fertilizer, uh, farm, farm ready, farm, farm fresh, farm to the table.

[00:19:23] Regan Robertson: You know, Maggie. It’s really interesting to me. I love that you brought this topic to the table today because, uh, it’s part of your guiding principles to, uh, make a safe space for people. And, um, and I love also that you pointed out the different perspectives and where people do sit in an organization and how, um, how that can, um, positively or negatively impact how they share feedback with everyone? Was it, was it a top of mind? Like, did you just, did it just pop in your head? Like, oh my gosh, we’re going to sit in a circle all together.

[00:19:54] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: It kind of did. Yeah. I, I allowed myself to be guided by whatever guides me, uh, every day, whatever, whatever source, whatever spirit, whatever you want to call it. And I just asked for guidance and I, and that’s. That’s kind of what downloaded from above me. Um, if I had to, you know, bring it together a little bit spiritual, and it also has been my own growth and guilt associated with having been a boss hole. Um, for such a big chunk of my career and really attempting to step into the role of servant leadership, um, right now and surrounding myself with mentors and, and people that have a similar outlook. Uh, on, on treating people. Than I that, that, that I am willing to embody at this juncture in my career.

[00:20:45] Regan Robertson: One of the things that I admire about you, Maggie, so much is, uh, your ability to carve out time for your own learning. And I’m really excited that you’re gonna be back on another podcast to talk about some self-learning that you dove into. Because I think when you invest in yourself, it does radiate and it pays out to to others. And I think you give yourself. That mine share, um, real estate so that you can come up with these creative ideas. You know, Victoria Peterson, by the way, which you referenced earlier, she’s Productive Dentist Academy’s, uh, co founder and CEO for those listening that, that don’t know. Um, she’s always said that, you know, success requires support and you’ve got to give yourself space. There was a time I was running. I don’t know how many to do lists items. I had multiple to do lists going at one time. And I said, Oh, I just don’t feel very creative. And she said, stop. You’re very creative as an individual, but right now you don’t have the bandwidth to be creative. If you took a few things off your plate, I bet the creativity would flow. And she was right. She was 100 percent right.

[00:21:49] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Well, didn’t you guys just record a podcast on margin? Yes,

[00:21:52] Regan Robertson: we did.

[00:21:53] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Very timely.

[00:21:55] Regan Robertson: Very timely. Yes. And I’m proving that someone

[00:21:57] Dr. Chad Johnson: listens. Every single day

[00:22:00] Regan Robertson: this week, I’m asking myself, do I, do I have margin? Am I, am I having margin here? Am I creating good margin for myself? That was a great

[00:22:07] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: book. Chad recommended to me a little while ago and it’s just, I, I, I’ve been using that term margin

[00:22:14] Dr. Chad Johnson: a lot. Yep. Well, we appreciate you coming on to talk this stuff over. Um, it’s cool that you’re vulnerable, vulnerable about this because many people would be guarded about that and I feel like even today you spoke with dignity and integrity about that as a boss for solutions sake and, um, for the outcome of your mission, uh, being the boss and, um, uh, I learned a lot. So thank you very much for coming on and talking that stuff through.

[00:22:45] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Thank you both. It’s always an honor to hang out with you guys.

[00:22:50] Regan Robertson: Thank you for listening to another episode of Everyday Practices Podcast. Chad and I are here every week. Thanks to our community of listeners, just like you, and we’d love your help. It would mean the world. If you can help spread the word by sharing this episode with a fellow dentist and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify, do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share or feedback on how we can make this podcast even more awesome? Drop us an email at podcast@productivedentist.com and don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from Productive Dentist Academy at productivedentist.com/podcasts. See you next week.