Is Your Leadership Actually Leadersh*t? (E.293)

Jake Brown didn’t write a leadership manual. He wrote a warning. After years of dodging landmines and navigating dysfunction, Jake learned how to lead with clarity, humor, and zero tolerance for corporate nonsense.

In this unforgettable episode, Jake joins Dr. Chad Johnson and Regan Robertson to ask the question most leaders are afraid to face: Is your leadership actually leadersh*t?

You’ll laugh, wince, and rethink everything you inherited about being in charge. Whether you’re building a team or recovering from bad leadership yourself, this episode pulls no punches.

You’ll learn:

• How to survive bad bosses without becoming one
• The four roles we all play (and how to flip them)
• Two questions that change how you lead
• The one thing holding you back and how to name it
• Why humor is a secret weapon in broken systems

Key Reflection Questions for Listeners

• Am I leading from fear or from fun?
• What parts of my leadership style were inherited, not chosen?
• When did work stop feeling like a playground?

Suggested Next Steps

• Grab Jake’s book Leadership
• Ask your team the two questions from today’s episode
• Share this episode with someone quietly surviving bad leadership
  

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Regan Robertson: Have you ever read a book that’s actually from the employee’s perspective leaders? I am talking directly to you. I know I have read tons of books and I say tons. It is multitudes of books on leadership from the leader’s perspective, how to be a better leader. Um, you know, all the different tips and tricks you can think from one executive to another. I have yet to read a book that’s from the employee perspective until now. I just finished a copy of the Book Leader Shit by Jake Brown and, uh, my co-host Chad Johnson and I are about to interview Jake. We are so excited. Uh, Chad, you also downed the book in, in how much time?

[00:00:43] Dr. Chad Johnson: Uh, about four or five days, I think on the drive to work. This is kind of embarrassing because in front of the author, I was reading this book and I was like, man, I feel bad about hitting my employees, but I mean, leaders hit.

[00:01:01] Regan Robertson: So, so listen, we’re giving you, we’re giving you the PG 13 version. There is the PC version of this book, Leaders hit, and we’re just gonna try right and do leadership. So Jake Brown, you are a very funny, wonderful leadership coach. You own Air Balloon Advisory, uh, author. I met you through the business Made Simple Community. I follow you avidly on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for being our guest on Everyday Practices today to share your insight of all of your decades of experience being an employee, being an owner, and everything in between that sits between the pages of leadership. Welcome to our show, Jake.

[00:01:44] Jake Brown: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:46] Regan Robertson: Absolutely. So how did this idea even get started to write a book? Lots of leaders, I know they, they say, okay, I’m gonna write a book but there’s gotta be like a cannon moment. There’s gotta be something that says, “Okay, I’m gonna go ahead and write a book.”

[00:01:59] Jake Brown: Uh, okay. Uh, so the, to write the book, this idea, um, I was actually trying to build authority in another area of my expertise and everything, and I was just having all these conversations with, uh, creative people and middle managers and people that just hated their boss. Just had a really rough time with their boss and I was having these conversations and I went back and looked after writing the book. And in the course of about three months, I had 200 conversations with people that were just complaining about their boss and I thought, “There’s a thing here,” and I was telling the same stories over and over again, giving the advice, I was relating with people, and it’s this thing, it’s you. You get this picture where it’s like anytime you’re at a campfire, guys are together or you know, you’re just sitting with people and it’s like you get off work, there’s like the water cooler where it’s safe, but then you go to the bar afterwards and you’re like, oh my gosh, can you believe that Stan just did this? And it’s like everybody has those stories. Same thing when you say leadership, when you say the title of the book, people are like, oh, let me tell you about my boss. I can’t tell you how many times that’s happened and it’s like, or let me tell you about this boss I had in college. Like people immediately have a story to tell and what I realized was I was telling these stories over and over again and I was like, maybe I just pull them together in one place. Mm-hmm.

[00:03:11] Regan Robertson: So this book takes us through your journey. I, I, I forgot to, you know, let the listeners in on your background and, and being at a creative agency, you’re, you’re in a creative agency and you’re suffering through this boss named Stan. Now, was this, was this the culmination? Is this a fictional tale or was this, um, fully lived experience? Tell us about Stan, the bad boss and this creative agency that you were in.

[00:03:37] Jake Brown: So this is all real stories that have actually been blended because there are a couple characters. Um, there’s one character in the book, uh, Cher, who when I went back and looked at, is actually 15 different people that had that one role. There was one role that they just, Stan kept running people off. Stan is a fake name. You know, names have been changed to protect the guilty and the innocent, except my, my name, my name’s he same. Um, my wife’s name’s the same in there as well. Um, but I, It’s real stories and it’s going back and telling them from where they were and I even had coworkers from the time read early versions of the book to make sure that I didn’t fictional like too, like it’s like, is this, “Do you remember this?” And they were all like, “Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.” Yes, and it was just really funny to hear everybody come back. Um, so, and one part of, I talk about like there are wounds and scars and what I found is I couldn’t help people when it was an open wound, but when it was a scar, like think about scars. Like, you know, we grow up and we have scars and we’re like, well, lemme tell you about that. They’re like trophies that carry stories and it’s already healed. There’s a little bit of, you know, a pain maybe, but it’s, it’s healed but now we go back to the stories and they don’t hurt us anymore, but we can serve others through the scars. We can’t necessarily serve like people while we’re bleeding out, you know, it’s like, “Oh, I got a wound, I can’t help from there,” and that’s kind of what I realized is, um, yeah, this. This is the story from day one to day last, and it’s, uh, working at that agency and just some of the ridiculous stories and some of the completely absurd, um, ideas that we came up with to have fun and, uh, some of them are, uh, like we are, we, we were horrible employees at times and, you know, it was just part of the survival. I mean, there are things, I look back now and I’m like, I would fire somebody on the spot if they worked for me and did that. Like, no question. Like they would be gone. 

[00:05:33] Dr. Chad Johnson: Right. Yeah. And yet we’re human. Right.

[00:05:34] Regan Robertson: There is, there was one pervasive theme throughout the entire book that I kept, it kept like popping up. So I listened to it every single morning when I was getting ready for the day. Like it was, it was the first thing that I, that kicked off my day and I talked to myself, like, I’ll reply to the book. So I had lots of conversations with you, Jake. One of them was, I wonder what Stan’s perspective would be like, like what if Stan wrote a counter option, like a counter, a counter book to kind of like give his perspective, because I’ve been in, in the seat of the, oh, like

[00:06:06] Dr. Chad Johnson: Like wicking. Like, like the movie Wicked When Can’t Win Me

[00:06:08] Regan Robertson: Like Wicked because I, well, there’s a comradery. There’s a comradery to complaining about a bad boss. I’ll give you that. Like I have, I have been so guilty of com and I’ve had some doozies, I’ve had some amazing bosses and I’ve had some horrible bosses, and there is that sense of community when you get together and you complain about the boss.

[00:06:27] Jake Brown: The common enemy. Yeah.

[00:06:28] Regan Robertson: Oh yeah. Oh, completely and then on the flip side, I’ve been the boss. I think I’ve been a good boss and I think I’ve been a bad boss. I think it depends on years of experience, scenarios, all the context that sits around it and what I, there was one in particular, um, chapter where you were talking about Stan. He came in on a Friday and everyone was kind of anticipating what he was gonna do, and he dropped like a bunch of projects in the queue. Bounced and then by Monday was already asking, “Okay, well where are these things?” And that I thought was a really interesting perspective because I felt like all at once, I could see both sides. Like, what if Stan knew he couldn’t make payroll, if he didn’t push these projects through and nobody on the team knows this and then you’ve got the delivery team who gets it and is like, are, is he absolutely out of his mind? Like, how can we physically do the work? I feel like I’ve sat like right in the middle of it at times and been like, how do you navigate that and have community and have like, uh, respect moving forward? Like how, how did you, how did you navigate getting dropped projects on Friday and still showing up on Monday knowing that you were gonna have to work through it and maintain some sort of a working relationship with Stan?

[00:07:43] Jake Brown: Wow. It’s like, oh yeah, we’re gonna have, we get on before you’re like, haha, this is funny. This is gonna be a good conversation and then she’s just like, and what the heaviest question ever. Um, so I will say reading, like as you read through the book or you listen to it or whatever, um, the idea that I came away from it is that it’s about my growth. Like, you start the book the same way I started, it’s the boss’s fault. Mm-hmm but by the end of the book, it’s about my growth and it’s like I have to own this and that was what a lot of people, you can’t sell a book where you start out and you say, “Oh, I had a bad boss,” and this is how I grew start. That, they wanna complain about the bad boss. That’s what we do. Um, so through that, I had to grow everybody around me. We grew, you know, through time. And I would say the respect was not there in the beginning, um, but we learned how to do that and as we took on more, as I started leading more and more there, I realized, and I did have more empathy for the position that Stan was in but at the same point, I got to a point where I was like, if Stan’s not self-aware, like I can’t do that for Stan. Like, I can’t fix Stan and I can’t, I don’t know what to expect. So again, one of the things is, uh, we’ll go back to like most we, leadership issues, I think come from either, uh, misaligned or unmet expectations. So that idea, like the scenario that you said, when Stan drops all those projects and everything, if I know what the expectations are, I can work with it but my expectation is like, oh, look, Stan’s being lazy, being, you know, just making a fire so that he can be the hero. That’s what I see. And Stan’s like, they work for me, get this done. Like there’s an unmet, like there’s a, a misalignment there, but it stan’s like, Hey, leadership team, this is the issue that we’re having. Um. We need to make sure this gets done well. That’s great. We can rally the troops and have, you know, communication waterfall of who needs to know what. And even if it gets to a point where I’m like, “Hey guys, there’s something going on. We don’t have time to talk about it, whatever,” but I’m cashing in my social currency with the team and saying, “I need y’all to do me a solid favor right now. I’ll explain later.” Like, I can do that if they trust me, but if Stan just comes in, they don’t trust Stan at that point. So Stan can’t do it. But putting me in that position was really, really hard. When I go, “Hey guys, I need you to do me a solid favor.” I don’t know why. Like, that’s not okay. Now in my situation, going through the book and everything, there would never be a point in that company that, “Hey, we’re not gonna make payroll, so I need to do this kinda stuff.” Like I could see the numbers. I got to the point where, you know, we worked our way in where it’s kinda like, uh, we call it reverse delegation and it’s like, I’m going to take this away from you ’cause you’re bad at it. We would just like find ways to take tasks away from the owner, from the leader because we needed it to be better. It was like I, so we had worked our way in and taken some of that stuff, like the owner didn’t run payroll. Um, Natalie in the book actually did. 

[00:10:47] Dr. Chad Johnson: So I have a thought, Reagan is this indirectly what the magic of Productive Dentist Academy is. In that, at the workshop conferences, um, we have, you know, come together as the team and we go, here’s what all needs to get done. Um, say, by the way, who would be the best person to get this done and then, you know, like, oh, you’re right boss. It would be the administrative team’s, you know, best interest to do this. Well, why don’t we let them feel empowered to do their best by let it, and it’s almost, I don’t want to call it, uh, passive aggressive, but do you think Regan like that there was some, um, some, um, rewiring of the boss to, you know, because the boss is bringing the employees to this conference and then learning, “Wow, if I empower my team, my team does a lot better.” And then, and then, you know, the boss goes, yeah, it kind of was my idea to come to this conference and it’s my idea to, to let them, you know, help me out nd by, by letting the team kind of do this, I actually win and my productivity goes up and stuff like that. Reagan, was that ever a, a thing.

[00:11:58] Regan Robertson: It is always a beautiful thing to get everyone aligned on the same page. Meaning the understanding that if you’re going to serve a patient or you’re going to deliver a product to a consumer or a customer, that you’re all in this together and that you all want it to be successful, transparency is key, and no one individual is great at everything and I, I know for dentistry, um, I don’t know in the different industries you’ve worked with Jake, but, uh, you know, the, a lot of pressure sits on the doctor’s shoulders, especially if they’re business owner, um, and clinician at the same time and I do think the, the conference in particular, it absolutely helps people understand how they can show up and, and be empowered and yeah, take off some of the pieces that, that they shouldn’t be holding, maybe the doctor shouldn’t be holding and the team can step up. Jake, what? I think you’ve done an exceptional job when you talk about a misalignment of, um, expectations. So you say expectations or values or unspoken, what did you say exactly? It was really, really good.

[00:12:57] Jake Brown: That’s it. Misaligned or unmet expectations?

[00:13:01] Regan Robertson: Misaligned or, yeah, I think, I think you do an exceptional job separating the data elements from the emotional elements, and suddenly it becomes not so personal anymore and you’re able to, um, refocus where your goal is and it’s not at necessarily saying, Stan is a crappy boss, or, you know, uh, Melanie doesn’t know how to do her job.

[00:13:24] Jake Brown: Um, one of the things that I learned is that, for instance, most people expect their boss to lead them or to take them somewhere or to mentor them, or be a friend or a father figure or a mother figure. Like they expect them to make, like they expect them to change them and invest in them. Most bosses expect to pay you for your work. That’s it. It’s like, that was a huge, you know, misalignment for me. It was so long. I was like, I, you’re my boss, your job is to make me better. Like I’m the product that you’re working on and I will make you a lot of money. And then it’s like, or not like that just didn’t align. And when I started trying to have conversations like that with people, it was like, “No,” and I’m like, wait a minute. I completely misunderstood this whole boss thing. Like, I did not, like, my expectation was like, you know, I don’t know what Curious George book, I read and thought that this is what, how the world was gonna be when I got into my career. Um, I have found good people along the way in this, uh, instance. It wasn’t, um, it was just, um, Stan wanted credit, wanted, he, Stan was building a fan club that clapped for him. Mm-hmm, and I was like, yeah, that wasn’t in the brochure. Like, not at all what I signed up for. Um, and one of the things you guys mentioned talking about like the conference and that kind of stuff is, um, specifically you said the, the owner. Setting up the rest of the team to excel at their job and in the book I talk about the white framework, and it’s just two questions that you figure out. What is the position, what are you working on? And my favorite question to ask a leader, like if you’re reading the book, it’s like, am I aligned with the company, with the leader, the values, the team? Am I aligned? Am I a part of this? And where it’s going? Great. The other question is, am I able, and the idea there really is, do I have the skills and am I allowed to do my job? And my favorite question to ask the boss is, is your team able to do their job? They only talk about the skills, and I say, “Do you allow them to do it? Do you allow them to grow and learn?” Because here’s an example, when my son was learning to walk, I remember one day I was carrying the groceries. We, there’s three steps into our apartment. At the time he was, you know, little and I was like, “Okay, I’ll come back and carry you in because that was my solution.” I come back and he is making it all the way up to the top of the stairs and I go, wait a minute. He had to fail. He had to do something that was frustrating to me to be slow and everything, but I have to let him learn to climb those stairs and that’s a frustrating thing for my pace, but I never carried him up those stairs again because I let him figure it out. I gave him, I allowed him to develop that skill and most leaders, their biggest thing about delegation is I don’t have that time to teach ’em. Well, that’s cool, or they won’t do it as good as me and I’m like, you know, here’s another story about my kids. This one almost went in the book, but it wasn’t about work. Um, we have a, like a staggered chore chart that our kids grow into. Nice. And when our kids turn five, they clean toilets.

[00:16:35] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes.

[00:16:36] Jake Brown: And they clean toilets like a 5-year-old. Sure. But they learn. But it’s the next kid up whose job it’s to make sure that the toilet gets cleaned. So like right now, so a kid turns five, well the kid older than them is two years older. The seven year old’s job to make sure that the five year-old learns how to and cleans the toilet. Brilliant. Well then it was the 12 year old’s job to make sure that the bathroom was done. So they get like a higher level of oversight, right?

[00:16:59} Dr. Chad Johnson: Supervisory,  yeah.

[00:17:00] Jake Brown: Right. So they’re learning that kind stuff and I don’t have to delegate. My ADHD is fine ’cause I’m like bathroom done, I’m out. Um, but a five-year-old cleans the bathroom like a five-year old, a six-year old cleans the bathroom as good as I do, cleans the toilet. So you go but it takes them a year to get good at it, but at the same time, they develop that skill. They get better because we made space for them to get better. And we started this when my oldest was five. That means I haven’t coined a toilet in 10 years. That’s how delegation works.

[00:17:34] Regan Robertson: You know, that’s gonna be like the soundbite for the entire podcast now.

[00:17:38] Jake Brown: I haven’t cleaned a toilet in 10 years. Drop.

[00:17:42] Regan Robertson: I, there, there is a, there is a, aside from the cleaning toilet part, uh, what I think is really interesting is right, you, you get out what you put into something and, um, and allowing teams to have time to actually be able to be trained in addition to doing day-to-day work is something that I have seen regardless of industry again, that, that tends to be something that gets overlooked an awful lot and Chad, to your point, like with any, any conference or any sort of investment you make to, to train your team, it takes time. How, like, Chad, for you, um, because you’ve taken, you’ve taken your whole entire team multiple times and you invest in training in them, um, do you just make that a, like, is it just a given, like you just, when you are planning out your budget and you’re looking at the year, you just know like, I will designate X amount of hours as part of their development?

[00:18:35] Dr. Chad Johnson: No. Um. No, but we, I built it into my Google calendar and so I, I don’t think about the cumulative overall, like the big, like the big picture. It’s my actually like going on Wednesday, um, will rotate, uh, having a training session, and the hygienists can have the first one, the assistants can have the second one, the admin can have the third one, and then the fourth week is the, the monthly recap and stuff like that. So like, mine is a little bit more granular, but then it adds up. So I suppose I could in my mind say, “Okay, that’s 12 hours a year. You know, that, uh, that the hygienists are doing theirs and 12 hours a year that, you know, and stuff like that,” but I’ve never thought, okay, let’s, I’ve got an extra $30,000, let’s set that aside for employee development and, and let’s choose what to do with that. It was kind of like, “Oh man, I suppose we should make that conference work and I’ll just find a way to make it work, even though I don’t know if I have the budget for it.” That’s kind of how it went. Um, Jake, I have a question. Um, so I was curious how. It ended up long term and didn’t make it into the book that everyone chose to wear jeans. And then it makes me wonder if this, the alternate sub caption of this book is how to train your Boss. 

[00:20:03] Regan Robertson: Oh, well this is so good. I love the Jean story.

[00:20:06] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes. So your thoughts, Jay?

[00:20:08] Jake Brown: Um, sorry, I started laughing and I kind of forgot the question.

[00:20:10] Dr. Chad Johnson: Um, uh, so the question, was there any, like, so what didn’t make it into the book, like over the next year? Was it like, what’s that?

[00:20:15] Jake Brown: A lot that didn’t make it into the book.

[00:20:17] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes. So I just wonder if, you know, like if there was some poking fun of the gene story because poking fun, or shall we call it soft bullying is one way that we can, you know, like let people know like, “Hey, I’m just kidding around, but I’m not like there’s some truth to it. We don’t like when you aren’t consistent with your rules and you know, do you remember how we all wore the jeans? Do you want that to happen again because you are not consistent with how you come to work,” and stuff like that? Like was there any more follow up or was it just unsaid, unspoken, like done deal and that was it?

[00:21:00] Jake Brown: So on that specific, okay, I’m gonna back up. There’s a term that I use and I call it custom jabs. Yes, and it’s this idea, you can say stuff that’s like walking up and punching somebody in the throat.

[00:21:11] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes.

[00:21:11] Jake Brown: And they will smile at you and give you a hug and everything. ’cause you’re like, I heard you, I have listened to you, I understand you. And now my punch is because. I know you better than other people. And I think that’s those, even when you do those and they’re not kind, they land really, really well. And I have learned that. I’m really good at that. Um, actually my, my wife and my therapist have told me I’m really good at that. Um, very efficient too. At the, sometimes, sometimes too good. Oh yeah. You can smile at somebody.

[00:21:38] Dr. Chad Johnson: I know. See, that’s the best is when you actually smile and you just go, well, it’s ’cause you don’t wear deodorant. Yeah. See? And people are like, oh, he said that with a smile, huh?

[00:21:47] Jake Brown:  But it’s just those custom jabs, they, they do go deeper. They, they hit because the person’s like, oh, I, you understand me. It’s kinda like, you know, the, the jab from [00:22:00] a friend. You can take a harder hit from a friend than you can from a stranger or an enemy. That’s right. And it, it matters more like you’re, you’re gonna also respond to that differently. Um,

[00:22:09] Dr. Chad Johnson: So to the, to the genius that’s literally in Proverbs, isn’t it? It’s just like that’s, you know, that like a, a, a kiss from, uh, or something like that. Like that a kiss from an enemy is worse than a, uh, than a jab or whatever from a friend, you know, like from your, from your brother and it’s just like, yeah, that’s true.

[00:22:25] Jake Brown: Yeah. Straight out the, the new Chad translation, right? 

[00:22:29] Dr. Chad Johnson: That’s right. Yeah. It’s, it’s pretty much, yeah.

[00:22:32] Jake Brown: It’s the modern day context. The modern day gist.

[00:22:35] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yeah. Um, Sarah hears a lot of that.

[00:22:38] Regan Robertson: The, for context in this book, the Gene, the gene story, the gene story is really about not, not leading the way, horribly, like modeling the way in the worst way possible as a leader and being a total hypocrite, correct? 

[00:22:52] Jake Brown: Yeah. It’s, uh, so the boss shows up in jeans, shows up in jeans, shows up in jeans. We were only allowed to wear jeans on Friday. Our Fridays get taken away when clients are in the office or you know, just because Stan ate a bad burrito. I don’t know, we can’t wear jeans. Like, it’s ridiculous. There was no pattern. Um, so this kept going on and it was just, it was kind of a freedom that we had. One of the things that we had to hold onto that and it just kept getting taken away and then there’s this week that Stan just starts showing up ’cause he didn’t do laundry and he is showing up wearing jeans all the time and we’re like, “This is garbage.” So I rally the troops and we decide that one day we’re all just gonna wear jeans and see how this goes. And it proved a point we didn’t get in trouble. We should have, I should have gotten in a lot of trouble for this, it didn’t, um, it rallied everybody even closer together and it made some changes. Um, gene Fridays were never canceled again. Um, oh, okay, but the genes every day wasn’t a thing. It’s just like nobody ever spoke about it. Like it never came up, but we were always allowed to wear, like every Friday, even if clients came to the office, we were allowed to wear jeans on Friday. Like it just be became sacred thing, you know? It’s, it was good. Um, ironically though, I was gone for about six months or so and it became jeans every day, so I was like, “Okay.” So that was like a massive shift that they changed the policy that everybody could just wear jeans and I was kind of like, including Stan. Sure.

[00:24:26] Dr. Chad Johnson: Right.

[00:24:27] Jake Brown: I mean, you

[00:24:27] Regan Robertson: No, I, I’m Stan is Yeah. Chin Stan’s not real, real sort of real

[00:24:32] Jake Brown: well. Right, right, right. No. Stan’s a person, different name. Yeah, a person. Oh, okay. Correct. Okay. Yeah, and, um, yeah, but Stan was, uh, yeah, wore jeans whenever, um, they changed the kind of the culture a little bit. Like they shifted it kind of, I think what happened is when I left it, um, some of the glue that I was holding together, like I actually. In a way became an enabler because I was standing in that gap and part of my leaving, like they had to, there was some friction that they had to recalibrate and I think in part of that there were, there were several things that shifted. Um, another thing is right as I was leaving, we shifted the company, that agency to be completely remote, so then that was fine, but when they got together, everything was jeans of client meetings. You could wear jeans of client meetings. Like it definitely, there was a big, big shift there. Um, so that was interesting. Um,

[00:25:29] Regan Robertson: mm-hmm. I really like how you, uh, how you address the self-awareness piece in, in the book about leaders not being self-aware and I pulled a statistic, I posted it on LinkedIn. It was, it was something like 95% or so of leaders believe that they’re self-aware when actually it’s like minimal. It’s like 15% or something actually are self-aware and I thought the gene story was one example of being very, it was poignant because how could you not know if you have a policy in place and you know, and you show up as the Boston jeans, you’ve gotta, I mean, you’ve gotta have a moment in your head where you know you are going against the rules and then you tell this story about showing up and, and having this, this big special day planned. It was like a training day and you did the personality assessment and it rocked your world because it really demonstrated just how disconnected Stan was from the person that he actually is to the person that he is projecting and thinks he is, is sharing with everybody else and that what in the following pages, like it was a cliffhanger for me. I was like jumping out. I’ve done all of the personality tests, not every single one, but I’ve done so many and, um, and I’ve seen this scenario happen before, so I knew exactly where you were at. If you take the test, you do not see yourself and you project it onto others and the book continues and gives you tools and I thought that was amazing because whether you are a boss yourself or whether you are, uh, an employee sitting in the leadership and trying to work through it, you actually have solutions for it, which is amazing because most books, they talk about it, they make you aware of it, and then there isn’t a whole heck of a lot to do with it. So the, the Chad, do you remember the personality test story in his book?

[00:27:16] Dr. Chad Johnson: Uh, fill me in a little bit more to for context.

[00:27:18] Jake Brown: Well, the title is You Failed a Personality Test, you Get a Cookie

[00:27:26] Dr. Chad Johnson: Story Of My Life.

[00:27:30] Regan Robertson: So, yeah. So every, so, uh, I mean, when you’re investing in your team and, and forcing everybody to go through these, these tests or these, whatever it is that you’re gonna have them do, uh, what good is it if if you’re not gonna be real with yourself? And so, Jake did, I, did I understand it correctly? Everybody took a personality test and Stan gets up to, like, everyone’s reading off what they got as their results and it’s obvious that Stan either didn’t, he didn’t fill it out realistically, or he, he just saw a completely different version of himself than everybody else was experiencing.

[00:28:04] Jake Brown: It was, yeah. It was definitely, um, projected, you know, the masking of what Stan thought. Well, first off, wanted everybody to think mm-hmm and thought that we believed about him but it was, it was one, probably the most awkward moment in my career because you’re sitting there, it stands like, reading off this stuff and how great, you know, these are my strengths and all this kinda stuff and like I remember like sitting there like to this day I can remember that fluorescent light humming above me because the room is so awkwardly silent as everybody’s not laughing, like looking around, like trying to figure out like what’s happening here. Like everybody knew, like the interns knew this was not real, but Stan was just like so proud of the results. Like, look at how great I am. I’m a great communicator and I’m super organized and structured and a philosophical thinker and emotions never come into play and I’m like, you were screaming at somebody ’cause the cookies were late 10 minutes ago. What are you dogging about? Um, about, it was just that moment that I remember thinking like so many of these stories were even the name of the book, where it came from was something happened and I became aware of a gap of what I expected or what I thought Stan should be, you know, and it was like, then I immediately went to myself of as I progress to the book, as I get a little bit of growth, it’s like I can work on me and it’s like, okay, I need to be self-aware. Like, did I do this? So I didn’t put in the book, but I actually Huck, uh, my, you know, my best friend in the book. Um, actually he is my best friend. He lives across the street. Um, different name. Um, but we actually talked, we

[00:29:48] Dr. Chad Johnson: had a talk. It’s Jason. It’s not Jason. Okay. I, I thought I’d at least just one in a million names. I’d try. I know. Listen, I

[00:29:55] Jake Brown: Good try. Go for it. Yeah,

[00:29:56] Regan Robertson: Stay focused.

[00:29:56] Jake Brown: Um, but we, uh, anyway, we had a conversation and it was just kinda like, “Hey, are my results, right? Like, am I, am I right here? Like, this is what I thought about myself. I answered it from my perspective,” and he was like, like, this surprised me a little bit, but I can see that. And I’m like, “Okay.” So, you know, having somebody that you trust kind of sand off some of the edges or whatever, like, am I pretending here? Am I lying to myself? So I’ve been any kind of assessment, I bounce it off of other people. Try to get that outside perspective just to make sure, whether it’s my wife, sometimes my kids, um, just other people. I’m kinda like, I think this about myself, am I right? Um, but I’ve never been so far off that everybody in the room is just like, like, what do we do with this information? Like, it, it was so weird.

[00:30:42] Dr. Chad Johnson: Jake, practical information for all the listeners though, I’ve done employee evaluations where I have peers evaluate, uh, you know, so like, you

[00:30:45] Jake Brown: Like the 360 kind of thing.

[00:30:47] Dr. Chad Johnson: I don’t know. What’s that?

[00:30:49] Jake Brown: Uh, above, below beside like peers, the, the boss peers.

[00:30:51] Dr. Chad Johnson: That sounds really fancy. Yes. Yes to that, yes to that. Um, and, but yeah, so I, and that didn’t go over so hot, um, because they felt like it was like trying to, uh, gotcha or yeah, or whatever. Maybe it was the way I did it. I don’t know. I am a boss, by the way, so, you know, maybe I’m just not aware of how I did it, but, um, I, I had a, I had a tough time with that because I thought it would be good for people to see when there’s a discrepancy between, well, your peers rated you as a two out of five and you ranked yourself as a five out of five. Now it’s okay when you ranked yourself as a two and they rank them you as a two, then it’s just like, okay, you are very aware of your deficiency, but at least you see it, um, as opposed to being able to bring up as just like, okay, you wrote down fives on everything. Your peers said three on these three categories were why the discrepancy but, um.  I thought it was going to be a hit. It turned out it was just like, you know, I don’t know, they felt a little paranoid about it. So for what it’s worth to the listeners do it better than the way I did it, I guess. Yeah.

[00:32:13] Jake Brown: I would say I love the idea and from a very high level, hyper-focused, like, this will be, this would be helpful for me, this would be helpful for other people. One of the things that I always, um, you know, I learned from Stan and a couple other places and then I’ve tried to implement it even with my kids. It’s, you know, like the whole idea of like, you know, you wanna celebrate ’em in public unless they’re super introverted, like that could be painful and then you reprimand or you coach in private.  Like you try to do that more and the idea is that you’re trying to expose something or show somebody where they should be coached and you’re dragging other people into that conversation, especially on reviews. ’cause you go into the review. Think of it this way, anytime. The way that most reviews are wired, like the way that they’re intentionally designed is I’m interviewing for a raise. Like that is how we go into them as most employees, right? It’s like I, I want to skew all of the data because depending on how I answer these, that determines if I get a raise or promotion or whatever. You go, okay, I don’t want other people’s feedback. I don’t want like, I want this. Like, and then if you get some people that maybe aren’t as healthy, that are like, “Oh, well if I rate them low, then I’ll be the one up for the promotion, ” and then it just, it gets messy ’cause it’s like anytime there’s not trust, anytime it’s not a safe place for honesty, then you can’t have, it becomes grenades. 

[00:33:42] Dr. Chad Johnson: So now you have two discrepancies, one bias in favor of the the first person and then the other people can be a, Well, a positive or negative, it could be their best friend that’s trying to skew it up too. You’re right.

[00:33:56] Jake Brown: Wow. It’s just honesty dies when it’s not a good, like, if it’s not a healthy place, honesty is not valued like people are in it to win. Yes.

[00:34:08] Regan Robertson: I was gonna say, Chad, let’s talk, let’s, let’s, Jake, let’s slide this over to Betsy. ’cause let’s, let’s put Betsy under this frame. So Betsy is a character in the book, Chad. And when you’re talking about like 360 or peer reviewed, uh, you know, reviews and whatnot, I’ve done, I’ve done multiple different types of reviews. Betsy would be horrible. So she is this character that, uh, there’s a bit of nepotism going on, if I remember correctly and so she gets special treatment. She’s horrible. Like she, she, she does not, she does not play by the rules. She, she doesn’t show up for, for like client meetings or if she does, she’s dressed sloppily. Like there was, she was a, uh, a really great example of a bad.

[00:34:49] Jake Brown: Called her Bedhead Betsy.

[00:34:50] Regan Robertson: Wait, bedhead, Betsy.

[00:34:53] Dr. Chad Johnson: That sounds like a tra Do you remember Garbage Pail Kids? You know, because that sounds like the perfect quintessential garbage pail kid.

[00:35:01] Jake Brown: I can see that. I should have made a garbage pail kid card of her as part of the kit. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:06] Regan Robertson: Supposedly would have. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if you said this or if I just like wrote this down in my notes, but I, I, I have nepotism, Betsy, and I said, bad leaders let trash employees stay and they don’t deal with it.

[00:35:17] Jake Brown: Yeah.

[00:35:19] Regan Robertson: Um, yeah. Tell us more.

[00:35:22] Jake Brown: Yeah. Um, so in each, I like the way you did, you said that better. Um, in, in each chapter what actually happened is I, I was telling the stories and then I needed to come back to them and I was like, but what’s the thing? You know, what’s the thing? And I started calling ’em nuggets and then that was funny ’cause it’s all poop jokes, um, but I hand wrote them, so like at the end of every chapter there’s this handwritten note where it’s kind of like I wanted to be kinda like. I wrote in the book to say, here’s the takeaway and on that one, with the bedhead, Betsy, the idea is that, you know, a good leader takes out the trash, like it’s going to rot and ruin everything else, but you gotta clean up like that is part of the leader’s job. It’s not comfortable, it’s not fun, even if it’s your fault that the trash is there, um, but like, I literally started the paperwork and everything trying to fire this person and I was just told no, like, “We’re not gonna do that ’cause I don’t want to,” and I was like, “You’ve gotta be kidding me.”

[00:36:19] Regan Robertson: It’s, it’s crazy to me how much it, it brings down the entirety of the group when things like that happen. It sets a really bad example and, and it just ends up, it’s like an infection. I think It just, it, it starts to fester and, and go down and so to the point of it, I think when you’re aligned, like when the team’s aligned, when the leadership is great, then, then it’s, it’s easy to get to get peer reviews because the trust and the honesty. There, you know, Jake, I feel like this entire book was actually a quest to reclaim your joy. I like, yeah, yeah. Who doesn’t love a quest? It felt like a quest to, to recapture joy and, and live through things and try to, to have fun along the way and I, you know, you start the book off with, with your ninja, like office shenanigans and, and playfulness and, and part of it made me sad because how many times in my own life have I really, I can get super hyper, hyper-focused, especially towards a mission or a project and I do not build in enough time, I think, to have fun, like on the daily basis. I’m better now, but there were years when I just, I was so focused on the goal at hand. Like I, I, I felt like, you know, the dogs at the racetrack where they have the little rabbit on the stick and it felt like, I felt like that’s where I was always going for a lot of my career and, um, and, you know. In all of that, there’s just so many, there’s months, there’s years that can get, that can just go by the wayside and I feel like throughout this book and throughout your, your decade of experience, you were that for like the team you tried to help them keep up the joint, even in a toxic environment. Do you think that’s just your personality in general?

[00:37:59] Jake Brown: I think a lot of that is my personality. It is. Um, I mean, listeners you probably know I have a DHD you probably picked up at that really quickly. Um, but what I found out looking back was that, um, it was horrible and um, there’s a line where I talk about like as we were going, you know, that fun sparked joy and joy brought growth. That’s how it worked for me and in order to survive, I needed people to smile. I needed things, I needed disruption in the pain and I just went to what I knew and it was, you know, I was the kid who was in the back of the class being told, sit still doodling. Like I, I was that kid like I was now I’m a grownup version of that kid and it’s allowed, ’cause I built my business this way but it’s like this idea where there had to be fun, there had to be disruption because I was like, something in me was dying and it just happened. We weren’t allowed to talk. We weren’t allowed to do stuff. and like you mentioned hallway assassin chapter one, it’s like we just started playing little, I mean it’s like we are seven year olds out in the hall playing cops and robbers like shooting each other and stuff. Like it is ridiculous and it just happened. It was just like, it just kind of popped out and it was like, and then more people saw that spark where we were kind of alive. It was just started with the two of us and then more people joined and people like they found that fun but here’s the thing, we actually were hitting our goals and projections more because everybody was fired up and fueled and we were running faster, but at the same time, that hyper focus on the goals, I think that’s great and I think somebody at the company should be monitoring that, you know, there’s has to be somebody, otherwise we’re just having a bunch of fun on what niece is dying grown up. Yeah, sure. Well not even just be the grownup, but it could just be something where you’re like checking in You’re kinda like, okay, are we still facing the goal? Okay guys, sure. It’s lunchtime. We had a fun morning back to work, um, that can happen. I’ve had to be that person in situations and that became a dichotomy of I’m the distraction and the driver. Like, you know, I have to, I physically would be like, “Hey, headphones on. We’re working.” Like I had to physically signal people that it’s work time where I’m headphones on, like, this is our workout. Like this is what we’re doing. Um, but I don’t think chasing goals is bad. Like I have a lot of fun chasing big goals and driving things forward. I sometimes have trouble celebrating because of most of my career when I’m driving and I hit a big thing and I have a break. Like for instance, the book, I launched my book. I put it out there in the world. People started like, it went way better than I expected. It was received very well. I mean, I was. I was like, man, I hope 50 people buy this sometime in my lifetime. Yes, let’s just say that pre-orders were, it has now surpassed 5,000 copies and I was like, hoping for 50. I was kinda like, I don’t wanna tell people that I wanna sell 50. Like, we’ll see what happens. Um, but having that big billion grabbing into it, and I launched the book, and to be honest, by the time it was live and I got everything done and it’s, it’s for sale. I was so tired of it. I like almost hated it. It was like, I’m ready to do something else. Yeah. And the way my brain works is I crossed the finish line. The way that I celebrate is I start the next race.

[00:41:08] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yep.

[00:41:09] Jake Brown: And I had to like, put in some buffers and go, okay, we’re gonna celebrate and my wife being awesome actually scheduled a vacation and we went and hiked in, uh, we went and hiked in Colorado without cell service. So I launched my book and the next week I was off the grid. I came back and I was excited and I loved it again, but it was one of those things like she knew that about me and protected me from myself ’cause I was about to dive into whatever the next thing on my list was. Um, so I think having the fun, having those disruptions, scheduling them and protecting them is important. Having flexibility for the fun will help people, but at the same time, it’s like if you just schedule, if you have a bunch of forced fun, like it’s not fun. No. Like I talk about, man, another chapter in there is the, uh, fantasy football. Like, yes, we were forced to do  fantasy football and nobody wanted to and it was just like, “All right, great. It’s like, this is gonna be a great culture experience. Like we’re everybody’s gonna love it and we were just like, this is so horrible. So like, you can’t force the fun, but you have to leave room for people to overlap and waste time. And it doesn’t have to be a lot. It just, it has to be some so that community so that they will like each other so that they can move forward and it can be. Little things like movies during lunchtime, like, you know, we would watch sometimes a movie across four days during our lunch breaks where we’d just sit down together if you wanted to you could in the conference room or not. Just little things like that that it is, it’s just like if it sparks and it sounds like fun, ask if people wanna do it um, but then at the same time you have to move things forward or you stop getting paid. So

[00:42:53] Regan Robertson: Fantasy football was on my list of, of notes because of the forced fund and everyone has had to suffer through a pizza party that they didn’t want to necessarily be part of. And it is, um, you know, 

[00:43:05] Jake Brown: By the way, if you are a leader and you are bringing in Little Caesar’s Pizza thinking that grownups are gonna like be happy or it’s worth something, like it’s just wrong. Like a pizza party is not community like it is. The way I think of it is like. If you’ve ever been to a food bank or somewhere where people are like getting food, like nobody wants to actually be seen there. They’re there ’cause they need help and they’re there for the help. That is how you feel going to a most company, pizza parties, it’s kind of like, well, I don’t have enough time to go anywhere, so I guess I’ll grab this pizza and you’re looking around at all the other people that are trapped in a situation they don’t wanna be in. And you’re like, you know, there’s hope somewhere else out there. I can’t wait to not be at this pizza party. Like, I want my life to be better than this.

[00:43:50] Dr. Chad Johnson: Right.

[00:43:50] Regan Robertson: Okay, so that’s a beautiful like flip because this book is, as you said, it, it goes from, you know, complaining about the situation, which is kind of a victim mindset, right? Like, I’m stuck in this and I, I just like leapt up when I heard in the book you say like, “I’m responsible for this, I can leave. Like, I’m not a prisoner here, I can do this.” She was so good. I was like, yeah and you have this like acronym wipe and, and it gives you this like assessment tool to how you can either continue to show up or, you know, you are no longer in alignment. So, so tell me if I’m wrong, here it is. It stands for winner, intern, prisoner and expert, right. So along with this acronym, you also have when you buy the book a kit, like you can go to your, like a special URL and you’ve got a kit with like downloadables in it that support this but can you tell our listeners about the white acronym and, and how it helps you? Kind of how it, I, I mean, I don’t know if you tell me more about it because it’s a brilliant, brilliant, the simple, like, I know exactly where I’m at in this moment and how I can show up and own my life and be the hero of my story.

[00:45:01] Jake Brown: Yeah, for sure. Um, so it came about ’cause I was, again, I was struggling and trying to figure myself out and then I started using it during people’s reviews, their quarterly reviews. I was just trying to figure out, like I, I was trying to come up with like a culture scale, like, are they still here? Can I count on them for another quarter? Like I was kind of self-preservation of my role for the people who worked for me, like I was grading them. And that’s kind of how it first started and the idea that I started looking at for myself, and every month I would grade myself on it just to see who am I showing up for other people and what is my role in this space? And it’s, we mentioned earlier, it’s the, um, you just asked two simple questions. Am I aligned? Like do I align with the boss, with the company, the vision, the team? Like am I a part of this movement or not? Yes. No. So it’s, you know, that’s one, it’s a two by two grid. So on the grid it’s a two by two grid for the white framework and what you can do is you ask yourself the two questions, and the first one it’s, you know, the question on the left axis is, am I aligned? And it’s either, yes, I’m aligned with the boss, the team, the mission, the company where we’re moving. Am I a part of that movement or not? Yes, no, super simple and then you just circle that row and then vertically it’s am I able, and the way I define able is, are you able to or not? Do you have the skills and are you allowed to do your job? And you circle it and as I came up with this, those were the two questions I wanted people to know and I was trying, trying to come up with a, a system or whatever, and I love two by two grids because it just, you get to ignore everything else in the world. These are the only two things that we’re answering and I came up with that, and then eventually I just started naming them and I had to adjust one of them, but I thought it was hilarious to have a book called Leadership and then the acronym Be Wipe, right? Um, and then, but the winner is, and then so you take that assessment real fast, simple. You can do that right now in half a second and then, um, each, there’s a couple chapters in the book where it actually dives into each one of those, kind of describes them a little bit more. Um, and the intern, I think of them as like a new puppy that is super excited and pees all over the kitchen. Like that’s the image that I get. You know, we all know like somebody’s super excited, they’re aligned. They’re, you know, they’re super happy, they’re passionate to be there. They have no skill, whatsoever and they just get all excited and make a mess. And everybody’s kind of like, can somebody go clean that up? Like that is the role when you are an intern, and that’s fine. You acknowledge it and then the steps are, you can slide, you know, beside, you can either get the skills and go to the winner or you slide down and you become a prisoner where it’s just like, you’re just there. You know, you’re, you’re stuck. Um, as the intern, the prisoner, they’re not able, and they’re not, you know, they’re not aligned. They’re just there. They have no leverage to move forward. There’s not that, that’s the worst, the darkest part where you don’t even have hope to find another job. ’cause you’re kind of like, I’m just stuck. Um, but it’s also the easiest one to change because you either align or you get able, like you, you just pick one of those and start developing it and it’s the easiest one to move from, um, the expert is, um. What I think is actually the worst one to be in. ’cause you’re kind of a mercenary, you’re the hired hand and you’re also the fastest one to get fired. Um, because as long as a bad boss or as long as a team needs what you provide your specialization, then you’re valuable but as soon as an unhealthy place doesn’t need you anymore, you’re not aligned, you’re the easiest one to kick off the bus. You’re, you’re also the one kind of with a target painted on your back if something goes sideways with a client and like, if a, if a non self-aware or a bad boss has to choose between their relationship with the client and you, you’re gone like so fast. Um, yeah.

[00:48:57] Dr. Chad Johnson: All right. So here’s my question, intern. Are you able, um, one way that you described it is, are you able, from the ability of the employee, what if someone is aligned but not able to because the boss is, are, are they still in that intern category?

[00:49:19] Jake Brown: Yep. If they are not allowed to do their job. Like they have the skills and they’re not allowed. Yes. Yeah. And I do talk about a couple ways to, um, get outta that, for instance. Um, so if you’re not allowed, we talk about reverse delegation in the book, and that is Yes. A way that you get information out of the boss. Another thing is to have conversations where you say, you asked for me to do this. I did this. Did you expect something different?

[00:49:53] Dr. Chad Johnson: Yes. Yep. That rings a bell

[00:49:55] Jake Brown: Because when I, when I started using that phrasing, like even with coaching and consulting clients, like, um, one of my biggest things with marketing agencies is you should not do revisions if you’re doing revisions. That’s because there was a misalignment and expectations at the beginning and the end. If you go back and say, “This is what we set out to do, this is where we did it. Did I misunderstand?” If you’re quoting, like if you go to a grownup and you say, “You said this, so I did it, did you lie to me?” Like, that’s basically what the conversation is saying without being abrasive. You know, you’re like, so going back and going saying, “You told me to do this. I did it. Did I misunderstand the expectations? Like was the expectation different?”

[00:50:26] Dr. Chad Johnson: You know what? Go funny to along those lines. I have a a, I have a, a, a, an internal marketing guy. We were at lunch the other day and he said, you know, I made a design for a guy ’cause he does side stuff and, um, and, and I’m cool with that. Like, but he, he does his, uh, side stuff and someone said, you know, I just want like this leaf, uh, and, but I want it to be simple, you know, and then our, our name. And so Dean says, “Okay, I’ll tell you what.” So he makes, uh, what was it? It was a maple leaf and so he takes a maple leaf and he, uh, puts the name on it and stuff like that and shows it to the guy and he says, “There, it’s simple. It has the leaf on it like you wanted, um, what do you think?” And then he goes, “Well, I could have done that. He was like, are you kidding me? Like you, you, you said this is, you wanted it simple and this is what you wanted. What more do you want?” And he’s like, “You know, like, how do you want it changed?” And he’s like, “I don’t know.” Like, and so it was, I think it was frustrating right along that line because it’s like, what do you mean? Like there should be no revision to this. This is actually exactly what you asked for, except for maybe you don’t know what you want more, more than you realized.

[00:51:42] Jake Brown: And that’s, that’s the point where you go back to the beginning and you go, you lied to me. Like, and it, and a point for a leader, what I would say is if you delegate something and then you change the rules along the way, you did lie to them. ’cause you said it was ready for them to work on. Like it wasn’t their job yet. If, if I’m a leader and I hand off something, I delegate it and then I come back and I say, “Oh, like I’m changing everything on you. Like, you know, oh, I handed this off to you and you worked on it for two weeks and, um, during that two weeks, I finally thought about the project, and this is what I meant to ask for. Like, I did lie to you when I told you it was your responsibility. Like it wasn’t yours yet.” That was the lie that was told and I found not because of other people, I found out because I had a good friend, employee who pulled me aside and said, we hate working on these projects for you and I was like, the friend with the, you know, just punched me in the throat and I was like, what do you mean you hate working on these? And I found out like that’s what I was doing. I was trying to allow them into the project earlier because I wasn’t allowed to. Well, sure, let’s go ahead and start the project but I wasn’t actually giving them the project and one of the, the tools for the reverse delegation, um, we call it the gold medal delegation, um, because it was during the Olympics. We came up with this and it’s not, um, metal, like it’s M-E-D-D-L-E because it’s like the boss kept meddling and getting involved in stuff. So this was like how we were going to stop that from happening. and it’s just a simple, like it’s a worksheet, but if you ask these questions in this way, it actually helps you make sure that the expectations are aligned and it’s written somewhere and you can go back to it. And then when you present information, when you’re done with a task, you can prove that you’re done and you can prove that you actually did the task as assigned. And if the leader has to come back and go, yeah, I assigned the task wrong, that’s a different conversation and you can go, great, as long as we both know that’s on you.

[00:53:36] Dr. Chad Johnson: That’s right. Don’t say it out loud.

[00:53:37] Jake Brown:  Admitted it. Yeah, and as the employee, they go, well the project changed. Now you’re mad at the boss’s behavior, not the project. And it’s not my fault whether or not I bring that with the boss. That’s a personal, you know, structural organizational thing. Yep, but at least I know I can survive that situation. And my favorite, so I don’t even remember if I covered this part in the book, but we, I came up with the idea of watching, we were watching the Olympics and the guy comes down and the lady interviews him, and then he didn’t know how to get off the course. Like he’s looking around trying to find the exit and it’s like on international tv. And the guy’s like, “I don’t know where to go and I don’t speak English well,” and like, I felt bad for him, but I realized that at the end of every project, there are so many times that things are delegated or whatever, that it’s like, I finished the course, now what, what do I do with the project? How do I get it off my plate? Do I just like close it? Do I throw it away? Do I send an email? And that’s the, the exit that’s like the very bottom. It’s kind of like do the work and tell somebody do the work and close it. Like, how does somebody exit this task? It’s no longer theirs ’cause it’s closed and when I watched that guy skiing, I was like, that’s the frustration that I’m having right now is I finish all of these courses. Like I finished everything. I, I finished this massive task. Like I’ll do an education exhibit for the state fair of Texas and I get to the bottom and then I look around and go, um, I got approval. When can this stop being my stress? Like, where does this go? 

[00:55:11] Regan Robertson: Where’s the handoff?

[00:55:12] Jake Brown: Yeah. Like, like when does the boss acknowledge that I’m done? Like that’s what I need to know.

[00:55:17] Regan Robertson: Oh my gosh, this is what we’re, we’re gonna have to do an episode too because really, I mean, think of the patient handoffs, Chad and the audience from that and when, when, when does the customer journey end? When does the patient journey end? When do we officially know? Are they pulled through? That’s, that’s. Incredible advice. Um, Jake, thank you for spending so much time with us on this. This is an incredible topic. One thing I’m going to say, I wanna, I wanna leave us with this because you were an incredible advisor and coach yourself. The two questions in Wipe alone, uh, whether you are listing right now and you’re an employee who’s stuck in a bad situation and trying to figure your way through it, or if you are a boss yourself because, um, that can be not a fun walk in the park either. I think you can definitely, I know for sure you can ask yourself those questions and if you find yourself not in the winter category and where you wanna be, everyone benefits from support and, uh, dental practices. You all know that, that Chad and Maggie and I have talked often about being brave and niching in and really going after what you authentically want as a business leader, as a practice owner and, um, and sometimes you need some support. So, uh, I have Jake’s permission to share. You said it yourself. You have the A DHD, and as a coach yourself, you, uh, you decided, you know, I’m, I’m doing well. I’m, I’m okay, but I’m gonna, I have this challenge to niche in, so I’m going to really narrow down my target audience and help ADHD leaders and I was on a call hearing it when, um, this story came through and you just shot it out of the roof and been very successful. So congratulations on your niche and reaching out to all the A DHD leaders. Um, if you could take us home, you know, what is the, what is the biggest thing that gives you joy from now being on the other side of all of this lives experience that’s, that’s turned into wisdom and, um, where do you get your most deepest satisfaction as you coach others through their own process?

[00:57:17] Jake Brown: Man, here we go with the heavy punches. Again, man, these are a big question. Um, what is the meaning of your life? Um, well, yeah, honestly, um, my. I had a great moment this week, and this is something that I was talking to one of my clients and we just went through some stuff and he goes, he was explaining what was going on right now in the frustration in a c certain situation and I said, “Man, can you even imagine having that problem three months ago?” And he was like, “No.” It was just this fact that he had grown, he had transitioned from, you know, this, what was to the problem that he’s having today, what he’s working on. Like, he can’t even imagine the problems that he was having then. Now, like he has grown. He has come to that point. That is my favorite part, especially as I’m working with, you know, uh, leaders that have ADHD where they go, oh, this is how I’m wired. Now we can build the business like this makes sense that this works. It’s like, um, real quick, when I think of ADHD, it’s a collection. It’s not design flaws, it’s a collection of design features. When I make that transition, it’s like, these are just features that nobody else knew what to do with a misaligned expectation and I, when I work with business leaders and it goes, yeah, this is all here. Maybe it’s not your job to do. Maybe we figure this out. How do we work around that or how do we just ignore it? It doesn’t actually matter. You don’t have to do that. Like for me, um, I can’t schedule anything. I can’t handle my own calendar. I am not a grownup when it comes to understanding time, but my 15-year-old son will do it for 20 bucks. Um, it’s like, you know what? He will handle that for me and I’m like, that’s something easy to handle. Um, not too long ago, I,  I went to an event and it took me three hours to try and book my flight and it’s with Southwest and you have to buy it through Southwest. You can’t, there aren’t options. Like it still took me that long to try and figure it out and I’m like, I’m done.  And my son’s like, boop, 15 minutes. Everything’s booked and ready to go. And I’m like, fail. I. Uh, when

[00:59:20] Regan Robertson: We no fail, that’s a thousand percent. I are relating so hard right now.

[00:59:26] Jake Brown: Um, so when those moments happen, like where somebody realizes that they have, like when we feel guilty that we’ve been carrying all this stuff or we feel like we’re failing, and it’s kinda like, wait, that’s, other people had that expectation of me and it wasn’t fair. That’s not my expectation. When we realize that, and then we can build a business on top of that, that is, that’s kind of my happy place is I get to help people do that but then when they realize it, and then they may, they start changing their actions and they give themselves the, the ability to not have freedom to go, that’s a design feature and I’m using it. So long answer. Sorry.

[01:00:00] Regan Robertson: You beautiful answer. All right. So I know leadership has sold thousands of copies, so my assumption is they can get it on. Where books are sold, what will you drop your details for us here? So if people want, 

[01:00:13] Dr. Chad Johnson: Including Audible, which he reads it himself and Jake, thank you for reading it yourself.

[01:00:17] Jake Brown: I love that. So I’m dyslexic as well, and I am terrified of reading in public and it took me two months of talking to good friends and my wife and stuff to convince me to read it in my own voice and I recorded it the first chapter, like 12 times, yes. Until I was not embarrassed and I sent it to people, even to a couple strangers to have them listen to it and I just realized I’m really good at telling these stories and I just would prompt and read through it and it was like, okay, so I am reading it but it was the biggest fear I had, like in my grownup career life, was I’m going to read in front of people and I’m going to ask them to pay me for that. Like it was this massive imposter syndrome fear thing that I was dealing with. So thank you for that encouragement., because it was the scariest grownup thing,

[01:01:09] Dr. Chad Johnson: Like work thing. I did.

[01:01:12] Jake Brown: I,

[01:01:12] Regan Robertson: What’s so funny is you sound so great in it too. Like you, I felt like I was in the room with you. You are a very, very wonderful orator. Like it was, it’s

[01:01:20] Dr. Chad Johnson: conversational, literally.

[01:01:22] Regan Robertson: Yeah, it was really, it was really good. Okay, so Jake, where do people buy the book? How do they get connected with you? What are your details?

[01:01:29] Jake Brown: Yeah, so to buy the book Fastest Way, it’s on Amazon, um, it’s on Audible. Um, if you go to the website, you can link to it from there. The website is leader shit.co, or if, um, you’re concerned, you can go to leadershit.co. That’s right. It’ll take you there and you can learn more about the book there. You can click on it. Um, you can actually find me there if you want to as well.

[01:01:51] Regan Robertson: Thank you, Jake. This has been an incredible hour of your time. We appreciate you. Um, thanks for being super brave and continuing to face your fears because people are transforming as a result of it.