Narcissism and Dentistry, Part 1 (E.267)

“It’s not just about labeling someone as a narcissist; it’s understanding what behaviors affect us, how to set boundaries, and how to take control of our own well-being.” ~Dr. Will Corrado

Narcissism is everywhere in pop culture, but how often do we truly understand what it is—and how it might be impacting our dental practices? In this episode, Regan Robertson, Dr. Chad Johnson, and Dr. Maggie Augustyn welcome the insightful Dr. Corrado to demystify narcissism and provide dentists with actionable strategies to navigate challenging relationships in both their professional and personal lives.

Whether you’re dealing with a difficult team member, a high-maintenance patient, or even recognizing patterns in yourself, this conversation offers the clarity you need to spot red flags and the tools to protect your peace. Dr. Corrado dives into practical techniques for setting boundaries, addressing conflict with empathy, and fostering healthier communication in your practice and beyond.

Dentists who listen to this episode will discover:

• What narcissism really looks like, beyond the stereotypes.
• Key warning signs to identify narcissistic behaviors in patients, colleagues, or even family members.
• Techniques to approach tough conversations while preserving your authority and sanity.
• How to create a practice environment that prioritizes respect, collaboration, and well-being.

If you’ve ever asked yourself, “How do I handle this difficult person?”, “Why does this interaction feel so draining?”, or “How can I protect my energy without burning bridges?”, this episode is your guide to understanding and navigating these challenges with confidence.

Listen now to transform your approach to conflict resolution and reclaim the harmony you deserve in your practice.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Announcer: The Productive Dentist Academy Podcast Network.

[00:00:02] Dr Will Corrado: You can not possibly fill the hole that is in the soul, if you will, of the narcissist. It’s a bottomless pit of need.

[00:00:15] Regan Robertson: Welcome to the Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. I’m Regan Robertson and my co host, Dr. Chad Johnson, Dr. Maggie Augustine and I are on a mission to share the story.

stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods you can take into your own dental practice if you are ready to reclaim your time so you can focus on great patient care without sacrificing yourself along the way, buckle up and listen in. Doctor, did you know that PDA coaching doctors grew 219, 000 on average in just the last 10 months?

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Baird. That’s right. We’re only offering 10 and then his calendar is full. Don’t wait. Go to ProductiveDentist. com right now and have a great 2025. We’ll see you in Texas. Dr. Will Corrado will be joining us. So if you have felt that you’ve been afflicted by narcissism, or you have wondered about narcissism, you’ve seen it somewhere, you’ve heard the term, you’re not exactly sure.

Dr. Will is going to set it straight for us. We are going to dive deep into this topic. So stay tuned and listen in.

[00:01:45] Dr. Chad Johnson: Well, Dr. Corrado, thanks for joining us today on Everyday Practices Dental Podcast. We appreciate you joining us. Can you tell us a little about your experience?

[00:01:53] Dr Will Corrado: Yes, certainly. Certainly. I, uh, I, I got my doctorate in 1999, um, in Los Angeles at Riacon College, which was, just a, a beautiful, lovely, kind of a boutique, private, uh, college that.

specialized in, um, Neo Freudian and, uh, Buddhistic psychology. In other words, they weren’t afraid of going deep and the experience was, uh, just that experiential. We had practicums, uh, in the school and, um, in addition to the, uh, didactic material or the theory, the learning, the theory, and, uh, It gave me a very rich experience, um, of just the, the field of psychology and the different theories and the different practices.

So that combined with thousands of hours of internship, because in California, they put you through, uh, 3000 hours of a single hour supervision. Okay. Wow. And you can’t even get your diploma in California unless You undergo 52 consecutive weeks of individual therapy. Yourself. Yourself. Yeah. Right. So, uh, California insists that you kind of walk the, the walk and talk the talk.

I think that’s fair. Yeah. I think it’s a great thing and I, I, I don’t regret it at all, but, you know, it was , it was demanding. It’s, it’s certainly, um, it’s certainly kind of filled in the gaps and made it a much more, uh, immersive kind of learning experience. So, um, I learned what to do and what not to do, uh, in a therapy session.

And by the way, uh, to anybody seeking, uh, uh, professional psychotherapy, um, you have to be a good consumer. Be a good consumer because there are a lot of questionable therapists out there. Just like Any feel there’s a lot of questionable lawyers, etc, etc. You know, you have to kind of shop around and get a feel for the person that you’re going to do this kind of work with because you’re opening up to them and you’re confiding in them and you’re you’re exposing your vulnerabilities and your doubts and your fears.

So it’s, um, and it’s a privilege, you know, for a therapist to work with people. Um, that’s something that I, I, I let my clientele know all the time. Um, thank you so much for having the confidence. Thank you for trusting me. Thank you for, um, letting me into your life. It’s a great privilege. And, um, And I’m honored to do the work.

[00:04:33] Dr. Chad Johnson: I like that you respect that. That’s cool.

[00:04:36] Regan Robertson: Are there critical questions that you think people should ask when evaluating going into any type of therapy?

[00:04:43] Dr Will Corrado: Well, I would say this. Um, I think the best way to do it is to meet the person. If you can meet the person, uh, certainly you could have like a perfunctory telephone conversation, a brief telephone conversation.

Um, but if at all possible, go ahead and have that initial consultation. Um, even if it doesn’t work out, if you choose against being with that therapist, you’re going to save yourself a world of trouble and, uh, possible injury because, uh, there are some therapists who, uh, frankly are not as gifted or not as tuned in, uh, you know, lack a certain level of empathy and professionalism, you know, you don’t know what you’re going to get.

Um, until you get it. And so you have to kind of be willing to at least have an interview with more than anything else. See how you feel, you know, when you’re in the person’s presence. Do you feel that they have empathy? Do you feel that they care about you? Can you feel their humanity? Do you feel judged by them?

If you feel cold and remote, are you able to connect with them? You know, is there enough connective tissue? Um, this is really important because Um, you’re allowing them into a, uh, uh, an extremely delicate and vulnerable part of your life. And, um, that’s, that’s a big thing.

[00:06:03] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Well, I speak from experience as a patient of Dr.

Corrado’s, and I was sharing with Reagan before that one of my favorite things about you, and I think I’ve. I’ve shared that with you is that when you are sitting across from Dr. Corrado, Dr. Will, one of the things that you impart on all of your patients is that we are deserving of all the love in the world and that we are made good.

And because we are made good, we are deserving of all the, all the love in the world. So I, I, I certainly, uh, You are the real deal. And, and you, you walk the talk and, and for that I am, I am very grateful. But a follow up question would be, which states are you licensed to practice in? Is it just Illinois or is it other states as well?

[00:06:46] Dr Will Corrado: I’m presently licensed in Illinois. Um, I do have a continuous relationship with California. I’ve let my license, uh, go inactive there for the time being, only because once it actives you have a, a separate tax return for California and oh. It kind of really puts you in a difficult bind. So I’ve, I’ve let that go, uh, inactive in order to avoid that issue.

But, um, you know, that’s where I started. I lived there for 35, 36 years and, um, I’ve been in Illinois now, uh, and licensed here since, uh, 2016. So, um, it’s a very different, uh, world. I can tell you that very different world and the beauty of, of having gotten my license in Illinois and, um, practicing here is that people actually have insurance, they have insurance, you know, and, uh, you, I got to see a much more well rounded and healthy kind of cross section of, um, Society of the world that we live in versus California where, uh, so many people do not have insurance.

And especially in the business I was in, I was surrounded by people in show business in the form of arts. Um, what can I tell you? It’s, you know, that whole field is, is kind of a bipolar. Yeah. There’s a different cross section of, of population. Right. And there’s, there’s an advanced level of narcissism, just a real concentration of it because you have big personalities and flamboyant showy people.

And, uh, you know, people who want to be controversial and make a difference and, you know, be. everything. Um, and so it’s interesting because you end up having to kind of fashion your approach to people, um, a little bit differently there, you know, I have to tolerate a lot more, uh, overt narcissistic clientele out there.

Um, because you know, the look, it’s a show business,

[00:08:53] Dr. Chad Johnson: correct? Well, that kind of broaches the subject today. I mean, you know, like we collaborated behind the scenes and we’ve come up with questions for us to get to our first fun one. We did Maggie, Regan and myself. We wrote down our definitions. We had 30 seconds and our goal was just to see.

see how far off and or how close we are, right or wrong to what narcissism is. I have to start out by saying mine’s probably the best. Uh

[00:09:20] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: huh. I

[00:09:23] Dr. Chad Johnson: love it. Yeah, that’s perfect. So, um, Regan, who do you want to start? Who should we start with? And

[00:09:30] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: nobody Googled this right now. No, I don’t

[00:09:33] Regan Robertson: think mine’s perfect. No, I did not.

I did not Google mine. All I can say is I’m a healthy consumer of TikTok and Instagram reels. So, uh, Maggie, go ahead. You kick us off because you brought us Dr. Corrado. We are so grateful for you because we sat around a barbecue table a couple of months ago talking about narcissism and that was the, the birth of all of

[00:09:53] Dr. Chad Johnson: this.

Shout out to Hutchins barbecue in Dallas, Fort Worth area.

[00:09:59] Dr Will Corrado: All right. Thank you. And Dr. Maggie. Um, thank you for the illustrious, uh, introduction. I feel horns blowing and as if I’m like the second coming of Christ.

Well, I am. Yeah, no, no, I wasn’t ready. Call me Jesus. Damn it. No, Truthfully, you know, I’m a very flawed man, uh, I’ve made lots of mistakes. I have all kinds of karmic inclusions and, uh, imperfections. What can I tell you? I do the best that I can do. And I promise, uh, that, that I can promise you, you know. First, do no harm.

Right. The ultracredit goes

[00:10:40] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: for that. Okay. Here’s what I’ve got. Okay. This is partly based on a personal experience. Um, narcissists is only concerned with their own wellbeing, willing to put others at risk for minimal gain. Ooh,

[00:10:53] Dr Will Corrado: succinct. Absolutely. Um, two absolute bullseyes. Okay.

[00:10:58] Regan Robertson: Okay. Okay. Chad.

[00:10:59] Dr. Chad Johnson: Okay. I’ll go.

Okay. Narcissism. Here’s my attempt making all subject matter about oneself. Bending everyday discussions focused on the group to become a narrative centered around oneself as though it’s a reality show about you, not just conversations, but the whole daily existence. Dr. Chad, A Just.

[00:11:19] Regan Robertson: Oh, that’s.

[00:11:20] Dr. Chad Johnson: Not as succinct, maybe an A you know, whatever.

[00:11:24] Regan Robertson: Okay. Kayline was someone who lacks a demonstration of empathy and has a grandiose sense of self. They feel that they are the most important person and will use others energy and manipulate it to get what it is that they want without concern for the other person.

[00:11:38] Dr Will Corrado: Hmm. Reagan. That’s Hallmark. Hallmark.

Absolutely. You know, I’ll just be just kind of like pedantic, but I’d like to read to you if you let me. Absolutely. Yes,

[00:11:51] Regan Robertson: please. That’s why you’re here

[00:11:53] Dr Will Corrado: to read. No, no, I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you a horrible story about the nurse. I’m going to read Some of the actual diagnostic criteria from the DSM five, which is the diagnostic and, uh, statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

It’s a psychologist and psychiatrists, what can I tell you? A nomenclature Yeah. Reference for, you know, uh, specific, um, diagnoses. So this is the diagnostic criteria, uh, for a narcissistic personality disorder. To lead in it’s a pervasive pattern of grandiosity in fantasy or behavior, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts as indicated by five or more of the following.

Number one. The person has a grandiose sense of self importance. For instance, an exaggerated achievement and talents expects to be recognized as superior without the commensurate achievements. Okay, so this is somebody who’s really puffed up, who’s really hyperinflated, uh, and who needs to have this kind of Uberman, uh, presence and to be recognized as such.

Number two is the person is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. Number three, person believes that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood or should associate with other special or high status people or institutions. Four, person They require an excessive level of admiration.

Five is that they have a sense of entitlement. An unreasonable expectation of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations. The sun rises and sets with them. Yeah. Number six is that they are interpersonally exploitative. In other words, they take advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.

Number seven, lacks empathy, is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. Eight is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her. And nine shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. You were all right. Every one of you gave correct answers, so good for you.

Underlying, the underlying wound. In narcissism. In other words, what gives rise to a narcissistic personality is actually a deep, deep fear of being exposed as less than or in some fashion, insufficient or even incorrect, to have their flaws known by other people of the public to a narcissist pointing out their flaws or mistakes.

or missteps is akin to a mortal psychic wound to them. It’s intolerable. And so the narcissistic personality disorder is all unconscious but mighty kind of defense against them feeling inadequate or less than perfect or flawed and it’s a defense against feeling the shame because the shame overwhelms them and disorients them.

[00:15:35] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: So what happens when, when someone does, how do they react

[00:15:38] Dr Will Corrado: to that? How does the narcissist react to that? Or how does somebody who’s in their presence react to that?

[00:15:43] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: How does the narcissist react? React to this mortal

[00:15:46] Dr Will Corrado: wound by having all of those diagnostic, uh, highlights that I, I covered just a few moments ago.

An overinflated sense of self grandiosity over the top expectations of everybody, expecting everybody to be completely tuned into them, being able to, uh, making their feelings and their agenda more important than anybody else’s, assuming a sense of power. and authority over others. Always. It’s always one of the keys.

They must feel superior, needing an excessive amount of compliments. There’s no end to the amount of praise and admiration you can give a narcissist. In fact, that’s a crucial piece to remember. You cannot possibly fill the hole that is in the soul, if you will, of the narcissist. It’s a bottomless pit of need.

The key to remember for those who want to survive narcissists is that this wasn’t your fault. Their wounding had nothing to do with you and you will be victimized by them. If you choose to engage them, almost a given, it’s almost impossible to not suffer some of the slings and arrows of their wound.

Okay, because they’re masters at projective identification. Um, I often refer to them as Hector the projector. Anything that any fault that you might point out to them or or let them know that they there might be a deficit here They’re going to become enraged and they’re going to turn it around and say no, it’s you It’s you you’re the one that has that and not me and you know, it’s it’s one of those it’s like teflon They can’t tolerate hearing anything that is critical or has to do with a flaw or a mistake that they might have made.

Again, it is akin to a mortal wound. This all goes back to a much larger, kind of, uh, earlier psychobiological developmental stage, really in early, early life, probably around the age of, I’m going to say between the ages of 18 to 24 months. Okay. There is a period by the way of natural narcissism that occurs in a child.

Um, this is when you’ve heard of the terrible twos, for instance. Uh, and this is, yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:08] Dr. Chad Johnson: When you’re age appropriately expecting a two year old to be narcissistic. Exactly.

[00:18:13] Dr Will Corrado: Exactly. Um, And here’s the, here, here’s the, one of the theories is that people who have a narcissistic, uh, personality disorder, uh, get some in some fashion thwarted or shut down when they’re having their natural period of narcissism kind of, um, unfold when they’re during the terrible twos, you know, they will, you know, say no, and they’ll, you know, they’ll kind of be indignant and they’ll throw themselves around the tyrants, you know, and have, and little, little kind of like, uh, conniptions.

Uh, and what do you do in those instances? The most important thing is you try not to overreact and to not take it personally and to not really pay much attention to it. They need to feel the depth of their power. They need to feel that they have a right to be here in the world and that they will be heard and that they have vitality and that they have a certain amount of autocracy, if you will, or a sense of self.

If that child is being raised or cared for by a narcissist, parent, that parent is going to feel threatened by that little person who’s trying to be a big person, they are going to feel threatened and they’re going to defend against it. And oftentimes that parent or caretaker will in some fashion, shut the child down, or even.

Punish them, humiliate them, embarrass them. How dare you say that to me? How dare you say that to him? You know, people getting slapped across the face at that age and, you know, uh, uh, physically abused even is, is commonplace. Um, and so what does a child do then when they get shut down when this is, it’s kind of like their natural essence is being, um, castigated as being, they’re being deprived of it.

So what they do is they go deep inside and they internalize all of it and it begins to create a psychopathology. Okay.

[00:20:10] Dr. Chad Johnson: You think then that it’s, it’s the still waters run deep kind of mindset that there’ll be like, well, when I, I don’t know if they’re thinking this at the time, but when I’m bigger or big enough.

I will overtake you and be the, the, the main, you know, lion, I’ll be the alpha male or the alpha dog at some point, you know, like I’m gonna, I, I, you know, as a two year old, I can’t, you know, do that to you, mom, but wait until I’m bigger. I’m sure there’s a thousand possibilities, but I mean, that’s. That’s one of them that lies, you know, that they’re just lying in wait, Chad, you just gave a voice

[00:20:44] Dr Will Corrado: to, uh, a very real and unconscious, um, decision that is made at that time.

It’s, it pretty much is just like that. Now, it isn’t the case that every person who gets thwarted is going to, uh, eventually become a narcissist. Okay. That’s the interesting thing. So that’s why we know there are a number of different factors involved in the formation of this particularly difficult characterological disorder.

Um, but by the thank God, not everybody adapts the same way, you know, because at some level, again, this is an unconscious choice at that age. We either choose what you gave a voice to Dr. Chad is I’ll. You know, I’m going to become the dominant. I’ll show you and I’m okay. Right. Or they disidentify and say, I am, I am never going to be like that.

That is not, I am, that’s not my role and I’m not going to be that way. Interesting.

[00:21:38] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: Dr. Corrado. Um, I, you probably haven’t listened to many of our podcasts, but this is the quietest we have been on a podcast. You could hear a pin drop. This is, this is fascinating. Uh, I think we’re all, we’re all

[00:21:50] Dr Will Corrado: speechless.

Let me just comment on that. Try not to do that because, um, one of the features of a narcissist is to be mesmerizing, hypnotizing, uh, somebody who just. Kind of, you know, you can hear a pin drop. All right. Those are features of somebody who might be a narcissist. So you don’t want to

[00:22:13] Dr. Chad Johnson: overvalue me, you know,

[00:22:16] Dr. Maggie Augustyn: fascinating.

I mean, it’s not our

[00:22:17] Dr. Chad Johnson: wheelhouse either. That’s the thing, Maggie. Right. I mean, you know, it’s not like we’re experts on this subject matter. So you and I love to learn. And when we have someone that’s teaching us something that we don’t know, you know, Uh, yeah.

[00:22:30] Regan Robertson: Thank you for listening to another episode of everyday practices podcast.

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com. And don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from productive dentist academy at productive dentist. com slash podcasts. See you next week.