Saving Marriage from Success (E.279)

Maggie: This is a very unique opportunity that you are giving me and we don’t even know whether or not this will turn into a podcast. This is just like a little trial that you’re giving me. To interview you from the perspective of a, of a human being that is married to a dentist and really the, the purpose of, of this podcast is, is to show that being married to a dentist, a high achieving dentist is not the easiest thing in the world. In Everyday Practices Dental Podcast, we have interviewed a series of guests, Including Eric Roman and Richard Lowe and Eric Recker, who have talked about how being a high achieving dentist has brought, um, some challenges into their lives and, and, and into their marriage and so with this podcast, what I want to do is I just want to open up this door of what it’s like to be. What it’s like to see that, not from how we talk about it as dentists, but, but from the person that is actually married to the dentist. Um, and so, I, I am here interviewing my husband, um, Scott Augustyn. Hello. Um, Mr. Maggie Augustyn.

Scott: That’s correct. Um,

Maggie: Um, who’s going to be, you know, maybe, maybe willing to talk about that other side. So one of the things that, that I want you to do, if you’d be willing to is, is walk us back and, and give us like a short two or five minute version of, of how we met and, and how our relationship started because when you met me. Um, you, you, you say you got in on the ground floor.

Scott: I got in on the ground floor. Yes. Um, we met in very similar circumstances to most people of our age. We, we actually met, um, in a bar, a dance club, if you will. Um, this was, of course, pre tinder,

Maggie: but yes, and this was a late, uh, nine, 20th century,

Scott: 99,

Maggie: 98,

Scott: 98. One of those two. Um, and yeah, we just, uh, we got along very well, um, pursued a relationship and this was when you were still in college pre dental school. Um, but I think you were in your final year getting ready to wrap up.

Maggie: And you had no idea I was going to become an erotic perfectionist.

Scott: No, you hid that very well. Um, until I was over committed. And screwed, basically, um, that’s when the mask came off, um, and I got a peek of the monster underneath.

Maggie: Yeah, and so here, well, here’s the thing, listeners, when he says those things, I, I’m not offended, um, because there’s a lot of truth in it, it, it, it, and, and the crazy thing about this guy is, um, some of you know my, my story of  Timoteo’s, um, Uh, ups and downs with, with, with mental unrest and when I met Scott on our second date, my quote unquote best friend, uh, told him that I had just gotten out of the psych ward, second date, and this guy did not run away there. You must’ve had some brain damage.

Scott: I didn’t have any concept. I don’t think of what’s. You know, all of the implications, what that meant at the time, um, you know, for whatever reason in my experience in life up to that point, I fortunately or unfortunately didn’t have a whole lot of exposure to, um, people with mental, uh, mental illness and so the concept to me was very abstract. I didn’t get it. Um, I didn’t understand it and of course I shared a lot of the, um, misconceptions of the day, um, that, that, that even still exists today. Um, of, you know, just. You know, uh, get, you know, get over it, go, you know, do something fun or do something you like that makes you happy and then you won’t be depressed, you know,

Maggie: Snap out of it,

Scott: Snap out of it, brush it off. You know, those kinds of things that, uh, opinions of, of, you know, that, that people have control. And that they’re just not exerting enough control over themselves to be healthy. Um, that it’s a choice.

Maggie: So, so, you know, we’ve been together for 26 and a half years. We’re about to celebrate, um, uh, help me out here. Our 23rd.

Scott: Fourth.

Maggie: No,  no, we got married in 2002.

Scott: No, you’re right, yeah, 23rd.

Maggie: 23rd wedding anniversary. It’s getting a little too exciting. Yep, uh, February what?

Scott: February 9th.

Maggie: Nope, it’s, oh yeah, yeah, right, you’re right. So, February, February 9th, yeah. Um, and, uh, but you have nothing to do with dentistry. You’re completely out of dentistry. Um, you’re not, you’re not even a scientist. Um, tell us a little bit about your background. Give us like a 90 second review of, of who you are professionally so that that can help our listeners put things in perspective and understand that. Um, You know, you don’t do what, what we do.

Scott: No, uh, I will try. I’m a tech geek gamer, man, child, basically. I guess that’s the, the too long didn’t read description of myself. Um, I have always been involved and fascinated with computers, so I pursued that for much of my youth. Um, but I could never really pin down what part of computers I enjoyed. So, I’ve bounced between, um, the traditional IT work to, um, something more akin to like electronic repair. Uh, now I’m doing something closer to programming. Um, but I’ve always been fascinated with the tech world and then I had a small stint, uh, in my last year of high school doing, um, video game work. I used to write strategy guides for video games and so there I was playing games and doing desktop publishing because it was in a magazine. Um, so, and I, I was, I was doing that when I, when I met you when I met Maggie,

Maggie: So we come from very, very different professional. Professional backgrounds, um,

Scott: And personal standpoints as well,

Maggie: Right? So, okay, so here we are, um, and we’ve been married and, and, and, you know, we’ve built this life. I started the practice, uh, in 2006 with my partner and, and was running a pretty failed practice and really didn’t have a lot of strength to pay attention to whether or not it was failing or not. Uh, and, and, and a big part of that was because, you know, I was mentally unwell, so how could I possibly pay attention to what I was doing, uh, in terms of practice management when I was barely, uh, able to, to figure out, um, how to put one foot in front of the other but somehow, you know, the veil lifted, um, with your incredible support every step of the way, we, we managed to get through a cancer diagnosis together in 2018 and, you know, all of a sudden 2022 hit and the, the practice takes off and. You know, becomes extremely successful and not only does the practice become extremely successful, but this other part of my career starts to take off and I become an author and then I start to be asked to speak and you know, this, this idea of being high achieving perfectionist becomes redefined on an entirely different level. Right?

Scott: Well, a different, adifferent, um, a different focus because you, of course, are very, you were always very, or rather obsessed with keeping yourself occupied at all times, and it’s very possible that that is tied to the mental illness that you were dealing with, um, using it as a coping mechanism. You would endeavor to always be busy with something. So before writing and speaking, it was, um, the, you know, the school board or, um, donating to charities or, you know, there, there was always, there was always some task that you were involved in, over involved in, um, to keep yourself occupied, nothing was casual. Everything was 100%. Um, maybe even 110%, you know, so the, there was as little downtime as possible that you would be able to, or that you would have to deal with in order to reflect and relax on yourself.

Maggie: So there’s no point, there’s no point at which I was ever still.

Scott: It was. It was uncommon, um, you many, many years ago, you know, for, for whatever reason, um, you were better at being still, um, now I don’t know if that was due to medication or age or, or whatever, you know, whatever the reason was. It used to be possible to, for example, go to the movies with you and actually sit through a movie. Um, you know, eventually that, uh, became less and less, uh, to the point now where it’s. It’s difficult, um, to carve out that amount of time, but I’m, I’m kind of skipping to the end of the book though. So, uh,

Maggie: When it’s not just that it’s difficult to carve out time to go to the movies, I can’t sit through a movie.

Scott: Right. Um, and I don’t know if that’s again, uh, another facet of the mental illness or if that is. [00:13:00] Just your mind being so obsessed and preoccupied with the writing and the speaking and the dentistry that you can’t turn it off. And so you’re not enjoying what you’re doing at the time because you’re constantly spending time thinking about those other things.

Maggie: So a couple of things here. One, this interview has very little to do about me. I, I, I don’t want this to be about me and I know that Scott is talking about me but as you’re listening to this, what I want you to imagine is that I think a lot of our spouses think this way and I want you to think about when was the last time that you and your wife or husband or significant other went to see a movie and if you didn’t, is it because you couldn’t sit through a movie because you were constantly reaching for your phone? And if it’s not a movie, maybe, maybe it’s something else. And the other thing that. Well, I want to veer away from because it because I don’t think it’s a mental illness thing, and I’ll go into it in just a minute. Um, when we talked to Eric, Eric, uh, Dr. Eric Recker, and, and he’s become a good friend since, he talks about this idea of always wanting more and not being able to be still, because, because we just lack self worth and when we put so much on our plate, when we’re constantly chasing something, when we have three jobs, when we have a hundred emails to answer, we feel worthy. Do you think that’s what was happening here?

Scott: It’s possible, but the, in, in my mind and in my initial thoughts about that, that kind of a statement, that kind of a standpoint is that that behavior would set you up to never be able to recognize your self worth. Um, because you’d always be so occupied on whatever you were doing that you would never be able to stop and take stock of what you’ve accomplished and that And measure that against, you know, what you have done previously.So, you know, you could never feel accomplished because you could never recognize your accomplishments because you’re always working on the next accomplishment.

Maggie: But isn’t that what was happening? I mean, you said I went through it from, okay, so maybe my practice wasn’t successful and I was volunteering and then I was on the school board. Now my practice was successful and I was writing and speaking. I was never stopping. I was always chasing. I was always gathering these accomplishments. That’s exactly what was happening. I was always chasing something to, to a degree.

Scott: Yeah, that’s true. But it, it, it does. It did seem like anything that you took up that you occupied yourself with. If you stayed with too long, you burned yourself out on, and then that became the focus of how much you hated the thing you were doing, um, until you could switch gears into something else because you know, it’s not normal for someone to be going a hundred percent every day at, on two different jobs, you know, um, or three different jobs as it is and so eventually something has got to give and whether it’s a personal life or professional life or spiritual or, you know, whatever aspects of your life that have the lowest amount of, um, care being applied to it are probably going to be the first victims of this kind of behavior. Um, they’re the weakest links, so to speak and so that, you know, that again, there’s every accomplishment is only briefly seen as an accomplishment, until you learn about the next level of accomplishment and then the focus is on that. So it’s not, there’s never, it’s never enough. Um, you know, if you, uh, became president of the United States, you’d be like, well, why am I not president of the world? You know, it’d be, it’d be.

Maggie: And that, those are the things that I was saying,

Scott: Those were the things that you were doing. Um, now you would, because you would never, it would never be enough, right? You’d never be like, okay, I finally reached X. Like there was never a goal. Um, the goal was just to do the thing. Um, the side effect was that you had to be the best at the thing, or it’s like I’m hearing, it’s like

Maggie: I’m reading what, what Eric Reker has been writing. It’s just, it’s just exactly what, what he’s always saying. It was, you just have to be the best to prove to yourself that you’re good enough.

Scott: But there’s never a, there isn’t a best though. That’s the problem. Um, because whenever you would reach a level that you previously associated with the best people, you would find that there’s other people that are involved in other things that are respected by those people and so it would reshuffle in your mind that these are the new best people, because your previous best standards respected this new best level, and so they must be better. Then what you had, and so now you start pursuing that, um,

Maggie: So, so, so, so I was stuck in this cycle of constantly chasing and, and wanting more and more and more and more and I think this is not uncommon at all, um, in high achieving dentists, but, but this is really where this podcast becomes of utmost importance. How, how did that make, how did that make you feel? What did that do to our marriage?

Scott: It’s, it’s been hard, it’s been very hard, um, because, you know, I recognize that, um, that you’re very talented and you’re very good at what you do and what you are doing now is now what was making you happy before, um, now you’re pursuing some new kind of happiness and I’ve always been trying to be supportive of any of the endeavors that you get involved in, because, um, I don’t understand a whole lot of the, the stuff you pursue, but I do understand that it keeps you occupied and makes you happy. Um, and so I encourage you and support you, um, and try and offer unsolicited advice whenever, um, it’s not wanted, but it, it, it definitely strains my heart because I will watch you, for example, beat yourself up and work, you know, 20 hours a day and be tired and crabby and cranky, um, and disappointed with the other aspects of your life that are suffering because your focus and energy is on this new aspect, uhm, until you eventually just kind of burn out and crash, uhm, and you need to be saved basically, you need to be repaired. Um, and taken care of and pampered because you can’t handle it anymore. Um, you’ve given everything, you’ve burned the candle on both ends, the candle has gone out and you just kind of have nothing left, um, because of course that’s, that’s just what happens, you know, you can’t run at 200 percent all day, every day and expect that to be, you know, expect the rest of your life to continue marching on, um, without any kind of care, any kind of attention focused towards it. Um, and so the things that would normally bring you happiness and reflection, don’t get, um, don’t get invested in and so you can never decompress. You can never relax and let the pressure out, um, and it just builds and builds and builds until it pops.

Maggie: But that’s, okay, but so let, let me reframe the question. How did that make you feel?

Scott: Well, I, like I said, it, it, it, it broke my heart.

Maggie: Um, So, so but what else? It broke your heart to watch me like that, but where, how did it make you feel in, in, in the marriage and we arrived at a point

Scott: There’s, I mean, even even before that point, you know, that, that is a culmination point. It’s not, um, you know, I don’t know that the only thing that changes at that point is mentally I can say, well, I told you so, but you know, practically that’s, you know, that doesn’t help. So, um, instead it’s, it’s an opportunity to try and talk to you again and kind of express to you.

Maggie: So I’m not talking about I don’t want to talk about Me from this perspective.

Scott: I understand. I’m trying to formulate the thought

Maggie: Normally, he says well you let me answer

Scott: I’m trying to be polite You know, as, as this journey towards, um, this challenge goes on, um, it becomes harder and harder. Obviously, there’s, um, you know, as I mentioned, when you’re focusing so heavily on, on, on This latest pursuit, the other aspects of your life don’t get the attention that they need. You know, it’s, imagine it’s a garden, right? You don’t, you’re not watering the plants that you started with. Um, you’re only watering the plants that you just planted. Um, and in our case or in, or in other people’s cases as well, um, those starting plants were probably going to be our friendship, our relation, our personal relationship, our marriage, um, you know, the things that are taken for granted that are just there every single day, um, you know, that, that, that you always just kind of assume are running on momentum, um, but they require watering just as much as anything else. So it can be difficult dealing with somebody as driven and focused as, as you, as you are, um, because the idea of providing some kind of simple, uh, attention or, um, focus. Is so contrary to the pace that you’re living on for this other pursuit that it’s, it’s hard to justify the time. So, like, for example, just spending time, uh, with your spouse, um, cooking or talking over dinner or um, watching TV together or just sitting and talking, you know, about life or work or whatever, you know, those, that’s time that you could be spent doing the next thing that would take it off your plate, you know? Um, but for a person like me or, or somebody else, the other half of the, of the equation. I’m not involved in what you do, um, I’m, I’ve got my own pursuits and so the connection that we share is what binds us together and that is, you know, our marriage, our relationship, our love for each other but if that stuff doesn’t get attention, then it, it wilts just like anything would and so I imagine it’s terribly common, uh, in relationships where, um, one spouse becomes super focused on, um, their pursuits that they, uh, sacrifice the attention and, um, time that would otherwise be spent on their family or on their, their spouse as well. Um,

Maggie: And so there were days that I would just park my car. Walk past the kitchen would be short and rude to you if you were in the kitchen come upstairs and just keep working and there’d be days and days and days in a row of that.

Scott: Yeah, it’s very common because you’d be you’d be working yourself so hard t your pursuits that,

Maggie: And you’re giving explanations and excuses for that, but what did that feel like to you as the person that had been helping me and holding me for, you know, more than 25 years at that point,

Scott: It, it hurt and it felt unfair. Um, you know, it felt like I was, I was on the receiving end of, of all of the bad things, um, all of the stress and all of the frustration that you might be feeling as a result of the work that you were doing otherwise that’s so taxing. And so, um, you know, the only time only exposure I would get, uh, from you would be, um, exposure that was short or angry or, um, forced, you know, cause I would try and, and inject myself into the, um, into your zone. Um, but you know, it would, I’d feel lonely, uh, because you were going constantly, um, as somebody who would pursue that I imagine does. And you know, that my wants and my needs were being ignored and. Um, and so it hurt

Maggie: And, and to me, and this was unfair, but this was just my mindset at the time there was no ROI in talking to you and. You were always going to be there. So I needed to get to these emails. I needed to finish writing my articles. I needed to try and get more speaking gigs. I needed to increase my hourly production because that was going to make me feel like I was something or was someone and the assumption was that you were just going to wait for me and I, but I couldn’t see. I refuse to see that I was hurting you and I remember like, you know, we, we’d argue, um, a lot and, and what I would always say back to you is, but I’m the one paying the mortgage, so you just need to put up with whatever I’m giving you because I pay for all this and that’s how I made myself feel better about, you know, the bullshit that I was putting you through, um, and eventually. You know, you just kind of put your foot down and, and said, like, you know, you don’t want to do this anymore and asked that we get some help and we, um, we said Dr. Corrado has been on the, on the, on the, uh, a guest on this podcast and we started to see a marriage counselor, um, Dr. Geiger, who will also be a, uh, a guest on this podcast and we, Okay, you know, instead of buying a bigger house or instead of going on an expensive vacation or buying an expensive watch, we spent a lot of money. I mean, I think we spend on therapy in certain weeks as much as we pay for the mortgage. Um, uncertain months, I mean, and, um, and I didn’t want to go to therapy because I was afraid that it was going to hurt too much, but not just that it was going to hurt me, but I was afraid that I was going to hurt you.

Scott: Um, I mean, the big. The big joke for that whole situation is that you had already heard it, heard me. Um, which was why we were going to therapy in the first place. You know, uh, the kind of situation that we in particular ended up in, which I, I, again, I don’t think is necessarily uncommon to relationships that have this kind of dynamic. It’s that, it’s not that, you know, I decided, oh, I can’t, I can’t solve the problem. By myself, um, and in six months, this is going to be a real issue. It’s more that, you know, I’ve got nothing left to throw onto this woodpile to try and keep the fire going. Um, you know, without your help or without being able to work through these issues together. Um, and so it was kind of this or nothing of a situation, you know? Um,

Maggie: And I think one of the things that I, I failed to realize is that, you know, in our relationship, Scott has always been, I was always the one that needed his support and his help and, um, he had always lifted me up and it was kind of almost like a one way street. He was always the one holding me and lifting me up. And in my pursuits of validating myself by With the self worth and looking to other people, um, to validate me through these, you know, emails and speaking engagements and, and opportunities to write and increasing my hourly production, I entirely miss the fact that, um, he needed me and he missed me and. I actually really missed him too, but I had taken that and replaced it with other things, you know, like, you don’t let your mind wander about the things that hurt you, so you replace them with, with emails and, um, with holding the phone and with checking Instagram and Facebook, because if you let your mind wander, then you realize that your marriage is failing. So you write more articles and you make more Facebook posts because that’s the best way for you to keep from facing the truth. Um. So, you know, we were seeing Dr. Geiger and we came to a really good place and then we’re like, well, I think we’re going to stop seeing her and we stopped seeing her for a while and kind of the bottom fell out from under us again. We started seeing her again, um, I had this really incredible weekend in September where I, um, like the dream weekend for a speaker where I was in two different cities within two days and had an audience of over a thousand people and I was exhausted and I came home and I remember, I remember feeling like you, um, you weren’t even interested in asking me how it had gone. I mean, you said, “How did it go?” And, and I said, “It was fine,” and, but I, I really wanted you to ask me more. I wanted you to celebrate with me and, and you didn’t and we’d gotten into this, this, um, this argument. Do you remember that? And, um, and that was really hard and that, that changed a lot of things for me because I remember I, I came to you and I said, why can’t you just be happy for me? Why can’t you, why can’t you watch me on stage? Why can’t you, um, why can’t you see me like the audience sees me? And do you remember what you said?

Scott: Not for word for word, but, um, I remember that I was very, at that point I was very frustrated, um, because, you know, what you perceived as your dream, um, you know, milestone for this pursuit that you had, I just perceived it as another, another distraction, uh, to keep yourself going and keep yourself away from the family and keep yourself away from the home chasing this New dream. Um, and so I recall fighting with you about that and, and telling you that you, you chose these people over these nameless people, nameless and faceless, adoring fans over your family, and that you would prefer their adoration to our relationship, which I still believe was true, um, because it felt better, you know, it was all of the happiness with none of the baggage of reality, you know, um, because whenever you’re in a relationship with somebody for a long enough time, you have ups and you have downs, you know, um, and being a woman as you are, you remember every single bad thing I’ve ever done. So, you know, why experience that, um, why, you know, spend time looking at your spouse and seeing all the work that you have to do there. When you can look at a crowd who is applauding and crying and grateful and, um, you know, you get that high from speaking and from presenting and from writing, um, that feels good that you don’t get from the family, um, because it’s different and, and so I was, I kind of, I kind of let it all out at that point, you know, that how I felt and, um, you know, what I thought.

Maggie: I think in our, you know, 26 years of being together, in all of our arguments, I think you’ve yelled maybe a total of 10 times and I remember you yelled, you chose that and I’ll, I’ll never forget where I was sitting. I’ll never forget where you were standing. I’ll never forget how it made me feel. I’ll never forget how true it was. Um, I’ll never forget how, um, how profoundly I understood what I’d done, um, and how I, you know, made a promise to do better and to be better and I, and I think, you know, we, we had some, uh, a series of improvements. I, you know, and, and then didn’t again and then, you know, we needed to reframe things again, you know, a few weeks ago and now I’m trying better again, the interesting thing about it all is that it’s just like, you take a few steps forward, but because of all this circuitry that We have in our brains, I, I just, you know, and that’s not an excuse and I think it’s more of an explanation. Um, I revert back to the same old patterns and I can’t tell you, you know, I, I made myself a promise that I, I don’t want to be near my phone and it’s such a, an incredibly difficult challenge for me, not to be near my phone, but having that conversation with Scott and, you know, it wasn’t an easy conversation for you to have, I’m sure it hurt like hell to hear it. Um, but I don’t think we would have arrived at this place if we, if we, if we didn’t have it.

Scott: Oh, no. I mean, the crucial part of that particular experience was that, you know, I was fortunate enough to be able to pour it out in a way that made sense, um, in a way that was meant to be helpful, even if there were a lot of elements of hurt within it, um, and that you were able to listen and to understand and recognize my feelings on the whole thing, you know, to a degree, um, and kind of see, you know, what the, what the status was of the foundation that you always took for granted, um, which for married people Is, you know, it’s everything if that foundation crumbles away, then, then why is the marriage going on, you know, and if that’s, if that love and that, you know, relationship is, is, is gone and all you have is momentum at that part that’s keeping you together, then eventually you’re going to get to a point where you look at each other and just go, why, you know, um, so it is, yes. In my opinion, it’s, it is important to be able to open up that valve and let things out and really listen to what the other person is saying, um, and their feelings on the matter, because, you know, like in our situation, I, I, I don’t know the subject matter of what you talk about or what you speak about. I know, you know, a little bit bits and bobs here and there because of just. Interactions that we’ve had in the 20 plus years.

Maggie: But when I ask you to listen to it, you’re like, I don’t need to listen to it.

I talk to you all day.

Scott: And that’s true. I do listen to you speak to an audience of one usually frequently. And if you speak like that, I feel bad for your audience. Um, but I think that most loving couples, um, love their spouse, their significant other, no matter what they do, you know, they don’t. They [00:46:00] don’t need to understand all the intricacies of the other person’s pursuits.

Um, they’re happy because their spouse is happy. Um, but that’s always a double edged sword. So if, you know, if I’m happy because you’re happy, but you aren’t happy with. Me being happy for you, you know, then it just chips away at, at the relationship. Um, and there are disconnect starts to grow where, for example, you know, you went and spoke to those people and had that big presentation with that big audience [00:47:00] and you had crafted in your mind what you expected me to ask and to say.

And

Maggie: balloons and flowers and confetti.

Scott: Exactly. A parade.

Maggie: Yeah. Parade would have been nice.

Scott: Um. Petting zoo. A petting zoo. Uh, interviews with the local newspapers.

Maggie: Yeah. That should have been set up.

Scott: All of that should have been set up. And when I didn’t deliver that, um, no matter what that moving target was, it was, it was The worst thing I could have done.

Maggie: And the thing is you did bring me flowers. I did. When you picked me up from the airport.

Scott: I did, and I, I tried to talk to you about it, but not in the way that you were expecting me to talk to you about it. And so

Maggie: The petting zoo is a big disappointment.

Scott: I can understand that. Everybody loves a petting zoo.

[00:48:00] Um,

because that wasn’t what you imagined, um, was going to happen, it didn’t matter what really happened. That. It didn’t factor in anymore. It wasn’t good enough. Um, even though I checked a lot of the boxes, what your expectations were, because I didn’t check all of the boxes, I didn’t care. And that may have been because, you know, you had factored in these conditions.

Based on what you had available left in your mind to process the outside of that pursuit.

Maggie: Well, and, and here’s the thing. What, whatever in my mind you didn’t deliver led us to having that big discussion, which opened up a lot of communication and [00:49:00] presented and presented to us, um, a different reality of where our relationship actually was.

Which gave us an opportunity to, once again, Step back and, and change and try better, uh, at least for me. Um, where are we now? This is actually a question that I’m asking as much for our audience as I’m asking for myself.

Scott: I mean, we’re, we’re, if you imagine the relationship on a, you know, on a bell curve kind of graph, um, where

Maggie: Why don’t you just give me a scale of one to ten?

Scott: Well, because it’s a journey. Right. Nothing happens overnight. Um, there are highs and there are lows with the highs [00:50:00] being, you know, we love each other and we’re fully committed to each other and we’re, we can demonstrate to each other that we’re the most important thing to each other.

If the high is that’s number 10 and the, you know, going to the Walmart to buy a handgun is at an odd, you know,

Maggie: someone’s going to make this political.

Scott: You know, okay, how about I change it? We’re going to the yellow pages and looking up lawyers at one, you know, it’s progressing lower and lower. I would say we’re probably at maybe a seven.

Maggie: You mean it’s progressing higher and higher?

Scott: No, because higher and higher would mean that

you or the other person is spending more energy and more time being [00:51:00] committed to, um, the foundational stuff, the family.

Maggie: But I am!

I, I, I, I went and built a snowman today.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, that was great. Are we still doing the interview?

Maggie: I need, I need some self worth points here. Um, okay, so, but, well, if I’m trending lower, then where, when were we at a higher number?

Scott: When we got married.

I honestly, I would say it was

Maggie: seven is high. I did not, I would not have expected you to give us a seven.

Scott: You thought we were closer to the yellow page there.

Maggie: And no, not quite, but I mean, I’ll take a seven,

Scott: you know, it’s,

Maggie: but it takes effort. It takes effort on both of our,

Scott: of course it takes [00:52:00] effort because you are. Um, taking away energy and time from the pursuit that you have otherwise. Um, and I’m sure that’s the calculation that’s going on in your head. Like I could, I could go and I could build a snowman for half an hour, or I could spend half an hour researching my next story or sending off these emails or That’s exactly

Maggie: what’s happening in my head.

Yes.

Scott: Exactly. Exactly. So what? It’s wonderful that you made the decision to do the snowman. That’s a good thing for sure. Um, but I want to get to a place where that’s not a decision. That’s the default and the decision is more. You know, do I want to give up,

you know, what I’ve got [00:53:00] with my family, the time I would spend with my family to do this, and maybe I should talk to my family about it.

Maggie: Um, Eric Recker, I’m always giving you ideas on an article right about decision versus default. That is actually really profound. We are on this default to check our phone and Facebook and emails, and we need to change the default into a decision.

A decision to do the opposite of the default.

Scott: Yeah, the default should be your relationship. Everything else is a decision.

Maggie: If, if you are out in the market again looking for ladies.

Scott: You mean we hit that one?

Maggie: We hit that one. You gonna marry a dentist again?

Scott: Yeah, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. I don’t have a problem with the dentistry or the speaking or the writing.

Just

Maggie: with me?

Scott: Don’t, don’t get [00:54:00] me in trouble here, especially on a recording that can be used in court. Um, no, I think the, the bigger problem is, is, is the dissatisfaction with the accomplishments that you have. You know, I, I’ve been trying to preach to you for years, um, about how if you just focused on your business, that.

You would be wildly successful and relaxed. Um.

Maggie: I know, but that’s not what I want.

Scott: But that’s not what you want. Um, but what you want changes. So.

Maggie: So you just gotta wait another, you just gotta wait another 10 years.

Scott: Well, more like we gotta roll the dice for another 10 years. You know, um, because like [00:55:00] that, that statement in and of itself is a recognition that, you know, there’s a problem, but it’s a problem I don’t want to fix.

Maggie: Can you please explain that?

Scott: Sure. I mean, in my mind, hearing something like that,

Maggie: Tell me what you mean by that.

Scott: By what?

Maggie: When you said, when I hear a statement like that, what do you mean by, what statement are you referring to?

Scott: Oh, that we just have to wait 10 more years. Um, that, that tells me that, you know, I’m, I’m going to keep working at my pursuit and we’ll see if in 10 years I still want to keep working on this or I want to do something different.

Um, rather than I’m going to switch my [00:56:00] focus back to our relationship, um, and put this other thing on the back burner or re, you know, re cajigger what my priorities are, but, um, it really does feel like

the intent behind that statement is basically, you know, let’s ignore the problem and let’s just keep going as we’re going and we’ll see if things get better.

Maggie: And I can wholeheartedly understand where you’re coming from. So I think the way that I would adjust the statement would be, cause here’s the other thing, right?

Like. I don’t want to be just a dentist, this is something that I want to continue, continue doing, but the way that I would adjust the statement, [00:57:00] um, is, I will not pursue these three things, you know, authorship, speaking, and dentistry, at the same full force that I have over the last two years. And as I pursue those things, I will not throw under the bus my relationship with you and our daughter to make those things happen.

So, yeah, I, you know, I will continue being a clinician because that’s, that’s what pays the bills and, and I, and I do love that. But as far as the speaking and, and writing, I will continue pursuing that, just not at the same time. Not at the speed of light, um, but I don’t want to, to give that up. So, um, another colleague told me about the difference between balance and integration, right?

I think balance is bullshit, but you can integrate. [00:58:00] So it’s really hard to find balance amongst like these five things, like being a parent, being a spouse, being a dentist, author, and speaker. We can integrate them. But, you know, being a speaker and an author and dentist, they’re not going to be one, two, three, and you and Allie being four and five.

Um, being a speaker and an author can be four and five, you and Allie could be one and two, dentists could be three.

Scott: But you know what, honestly, I’m not surprised that you would feel very strongly about integration as opposed to balance, um, because integration implies you don’t have to get rid of anything, you just kind of cram it all together, whereas balance, uh, balance implies some kind of sacrifice.

Interesting. Something has got to give. And [00:59:00] so in the mind of someone who is whole focused, whole force focused on whatever their pursuit is at that time, integration sounds like a wonderful solution because that means I don’t have to change what I’m doing. I just need to bring the rest of my life into what I’m doing and then it’ll somehow magically get better.

Maggie: And you don’t buy that?

Scott: I don’t buy that. I think that all that does is.

Sugarcoat the problem that puts an illusion over the problem saying, you know, I’m not ignoring my marriage. My husband’s here at the, at the presentation with me, you know, why, why would I be giving up on my marriage when my husband is sitting in the front row of my speech? Like he’s here. It’s like, well, okay, but maybe he’s here [01:00:00] because he desperately just wants to spend time with you.

And this is the only way he’s going to be able to, because You are willing to stop and spend time with him, you know,

Maggie: and this might be just another, another subject for another podcast, but I, that it’s an interesting, it’s a, it’s an interesting view. Um, And as we come to a, to a close here, I, I just really want to sincerely thank you for doing this.

I know you were not thrilled initially to, to do this. And I am so grateful that you were willing to open up our story and our marriage. Um, what advice do you have for flawed humans like me so that they. Don’t hit a place in their marriages that you and [01:01:00] I have, or if they have hit a place that you and I have, how do they make it out alive?

Scott: That’s tough. I mean, cause everybody’s situation is different, but I think that

the most, the most pie in the sky piece of advice I could offer or, or goal that I could offer would be to recognize that the relationship that you have with your spouse. Um, is, and always will be the first priority. Um, you know, that is the foundation for everything else that support that love, um, that pressure valve, that [01:02:00] communication that helps to allow everything else to work.

Um, and if that priority ever shifts, then there’s a problem. Um, there’s a problem in your life or there’s a problem in your marriage or both. Um, and if you want to continue to pursue that life of happiness with your spouse, you need to readjust and you need to refocus and you need to communicate. Um, you need to express to the, to the other, you know, your thoughts and your feelings, and you need to be prepared to give things up.

Um, because it’s very likely that you’ve taken things back, [01:03:00] um, in order to pursue your interests, whether it’s your time or your feelings, or your mental capacity or, or what. Um, you have clawed that back from your spouse or from your family in order to redirect it to your new pursuit. And so if you want to keep that foundation healthy, you have to be prepared.

And willing to give that back, um, to get that stability back. Now, it doesn’t necessarily have to be forever, but it needs to be an agreement between the both of you, um, because you’re both affected by it. You know, you’re, you’re one, the one spouse might be living their [01:04:00] dream and pursuing, you know, big speeches or.

Big articles or whatever, and they’re loving that, but they’re not, the other spouse is losing that part of the, the original spouse and

the whole, what you bring to the table and what they bring to the table is what created the table to begin with, you know, their love, your love, their love, um, is the whole purpose that you’re together to start with. So if you’re not. Willing to put that love back to the person, then there are problems and open communication, a willingness to have that communication, um, [01:05:00] is important.

Maggie: Thank you.

You’re welcome.

Maggie: I love you. You too.

Maggie: Well, I hope, um, listeners, you have been able to, um, To see the transparency of what can kind of, um, be hidden under the radar as we are in this incessant pursuit of perfectionism that we know will never come. And, and when we attempt to gain our self worth from, from all the wrong places for going and forgetting that really the, the only place that matters within our lives is, um, is not just human connection, but the depth of the human connection and the love that we all share and it’s a message that I need to hear as much as the rest of us. Um, [01:06:00] because without, without love and without one another, what else is there? So thank you for listening to everyday practices, dental podcast.