Disease Doesn’t Progress in Annual Maximums (E.260)

“You don’t have time not to take blood pressure. We’re not practicing sick care, we’re practicing healthcare with real care.” – Machell Hoover

Brief Overview of the Episode:

In this inspiring conversation, Dr. Bruce Baird reunites with former team member and now national oral-systemic educator Machell Hoover. Together they trace how the philosophy of comprehensive, risk-based care evolved from their days at Granbury Dental Center to the founding of the Clinical Calibration Institute. Their message is clear: dentistry is not about insurance codes or cleaning schedules, it’s about connection, prevention, and partnership in health.

What This Episode Reveals:

• Why true hygiene advocacy starts with whole-body curiosity
• How patient trust and understanding—not cost—drive case acceptance
• The role of calibrated communication between doctors, hygienists, and the entire team
• How oral-systemic care reframes dentistry as frontline medicine

What You’ll Learn:

• How to make health history your most powerful diagnostic tool
• Ways to align hygiene with systemic wellness and patient goals
• Why every team member—from front desk to assistant—shapes patient outcomes
• How CCI builds measurable calibration between philosophy and performance

If This Sounds Familiar:

• You’re frustrated that insurance dictates your care.
• Your hygiene team feels siloed from diagnosis or case conversations.
• You’re tired of “sick-care” checkups and want your team practicing proactive healthcare.

Next Steps:

Start your calibration today.
For less than the cost of one crown a month, your team can access the full CCI platform—on-demand training, live masterminds, and a community dedicated to comprehensive care.

Learn more at ClinicalCalibration.com

 

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Dr. Bruce Baird: Hi, this is Dr. Bruce Baird with Productive Dentist Podcast, and I have one of my favorite people in the world, Michelle Hoover with me today. Michelle, how are you doing?

[00:00:15] Machell Hoover: Uh, excited to be here and, uh, thank you for the invite. It’s lovely to always be able to spend time with you.

[00:00:22] Dr. Bruce Baird: Oh, thank you. Well, I tell you what, Michelle has turned into one of the top.

[00:00:28] Dr. Bruce Baird: Oral systemic educators in the entire country, and I’m so proud of you, Michelle, for, for what you’ve done over the last four years, five years, has it been five years now that you’ve been out lecturing?

[00:00:40] Machell Hoover: Um, uh, well, you officially pushed me out into the scary world, um, outside of clinical in late 2016, or I guess that’s when I was brave enough to say, okay, I’ll do it.

[00:00:54] Machell Hoover: Um, and, and then I started speaking in, in 2019. [00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Dr. Bruce Baird: Golly, it’s just time’s flying really quick. Um, for those of you who don’t know, um, Michelle actually worked in my practice and everything that I know about hygiene and oral systemic, we kinda learned together over, over. Over multiple years, and it just became part of the way we wanted to take care of patients.

[00:01:29] Dr. Bruce Baird: I mean, when we think about, uh, we have that new program called Clinical Calibration. Uh, you’ve been doing some programs and you’ve done some phenomenal stuff, but it’s like getting everyone on the same page, you know, and, and. Hygiene plays such a major role because without, and I know there’s controversy out in the country about hygiene and dentists right now, it seems to be a, a big deal, but to me it, it’s not about hygiene and [00:02:00] dentists, it’s about patients and how do we, how do we give them the highest level of care possible?

[00:02:07] Dr. Bruce Baird: What was the, what are the things that. That you think of, you know, when you start thinking about taking care of patients, it really doesn’t have anything to do with annual maximums on their insurance or anything like that. But what does, what does it boil down to Michelle when you’re looking at a patient?

[00:02:25] Machell Hoover: Uh, the whole person, curiosity, uh, life experiences and, and our role as healthcare professionals in ensuring that we’re providing, um, the highest level of care.

[00:02:41] Dr. Bruce Baird: Right? Yeah. It’s Do you find that, you know, when you talk about, you know, personal relationships and everything else, it’s, I I always tell people, I, I really only like to work on my friends.

[00:02:54] Dr. Bruce Baird: I know you and, and you know, you’re a, you’re an easy study and, and you’re somebody [00:03:00] that’s very easy to get to know. You’re very open and, and caring and sharing and that type of thing. Do you feel like that’s been one of your most valuable tools that you have? It is not necessarily just personality driven, but it’s also what you’re focusing on, isn’t it?

[00:03:17] Machell Hoover: Uh, I think that, um. You know, when I was nine years old and you know, this, uh, Lulu knows this, and, um, I knew at nine years old, um, that the one thing that I was gonna grow up and do, I wanted, I knew that what I was supposed to do was to love people well. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I, uh, am very curious about who people are.

[00:03:40] Machell Hoover: Highlighting the things that I love about people and, and, and that very much one of my avenues to be able to love people well, um, is, is being a healthcare professional. And, and that was beautifully complimented when I said yes to a [00:04:00] job that I wasn’t even looking for a job, but I said yes to Granbury Dental Center and working for you and, and Jeff.

[00:04:07] Machell Hoover: Um. Because it wasn’t just. Me alone loving these patients and being curious, why are they taking these medications? What is this disease that they have? And oh my gosh, airway and did aliens just land? And I’m walking in like this woo woo world now. No, we were connecting with every patient and, and you know, we were, um.

[00:04:31] Machell Hoover: Bruce, I, it, I appreciate it so much. I am not money driven. I am mission driven. However, Bruce always believed in, in paying his hygienist very well, and so we were paid on production. Um, um, but it wasn’t about the money for me. It was about what you always said. Uh, is ’cause I would go and ask if I could do something free for a patient or I’m concerned about, you [00:05:00] know, you know, X, Y, Z and you’re like, you’re the healthcare professional.

[00:05:04] Machell Hoover: You do what is best for them and you let me know what you need. And, um, that speaks my love language. So it’s all about relationship. It’s all about relationship,

[00:05:15] Dr. Bruce Baird: and that’s really the whole, the whole thing behind P-D-A-I-I, I joke with people all the time about, you know what a lousy boss I was and I was for a long time until I realized about relationships with the people.

[00:05:29] Dr. Bruce Baird: I thought, well, I’m the boss. This is how you do things. Just do it way I say and everything would be fine. But then I realized that the, the most valuable time that I could spend. Besides being with patients, but was also being with my team and, and, and, and teaching and educating my team. And I was on the phone with another doctor yesterday and I was saying, you know, if you focus on the money, that that’s a problem.

[00:05:58] Dr. Bruce Baird: Uh, because you tend to [00:06:00] become more piecemeal oriented, you know, oh, we need to do another this, we need to do another that, as opposed to. Getting to know the patient, first of all, getting to know about who they are, and then becoming a consultant to that patient. In other words, I’m your consultant here and it’s not like, oh, well you have gum disease and you have this, and you have that, and you have this.

[00:06:24] Dr. Bruce Baird: It’s like, what kind of medications are you taking? What uh, I’m going through? So tell me a little bit about how health history leads you into building that relationship.

[00:06:37] Machell Hoover: Um. So personalized care. So I, we practice in what we’re teaching in Clinical Calibration Institute is even a step further, even though I feel like we were doing it really well before we actually had a name for it.

[00:06:53] Machell Hoover: Uh, but we were risk factor driven and, and your [00:07:00] office, you know, we did that by having an understanding of periodontal risk carrie’s risk. Function, uh, airway, which again, 20 years ago, this was this, these are the pioneer years of, uh, dental, sleep, medicine and, and, and then of course aesthetics. And, uh, but.

[00:07:23] Machell Hoover: In order, like P four takes it the ne a step further because it is of course predicting the patient’s disease risk. Um, uh, focusing on prevention, which I feel we did really well even in those early years. We did as well as we knew how to do, and we were collaborating with medicine and referring to nutritionist, et cetera, which I’m really proud now.

[00:07:49] Machell Hoover: Doing it so much better and, uh, but then personalizing it and again, without having a name for it. Bruce, don’t you feel like we did that [00:08:00] really well? Like it was, we got more yeses than, than most because we were connecting with the person, the whole person. And, and, and the beauty of P four was partnership between we, the healthcare team.

[00:08:18] Machell Hoover: And each patient, and we did that in really incredibly well, even a long time ago, given the information that we had at the time and, and, and so to, to truly personalize care and predict disease risk. Those personalized care tools are going to be. Our health history, they’re going to be caries risk assessments, we know as salivary diagnostics, and then connecting with the patient and truly understanding their experiences, their goals, not their chief complaints.

[00:08:58] Machell Hoover: Let’s get away from the [00:09:00] negativity. What are our goals here today? Bruce, thank you so much for trusting our team. I am so excited to get to know you, and we are so excited to take care of you. Instant connection. Will you share your goals today? And then is it okay if we walk through your experiences with your health?

[00:09:19] Machell Hoover: That’s instant trust between our team and our patients. And so the health history is that first real connection, um, uh, between the healthcare professional and it sets the stage for everything that’s to follow.

[00:09:39] Dr. Bruce Baird: Absolutely. Yeah. There’s no question. And, and this, you know, this whole concept of clinical calibration is what we were doing for 20 years.

[00:09:50] Dr. Bruce Baird: You know, we wanted to have our, I, I didn’t just want to have you and I to understand the oral systemic risk because we were learning. [00:10:00] Um, but I also wanted my team, uh, chairside, uh, uh, the hygienist. I wanted to have our. Our, uh, our administrators, I wanted to have pretty much all of the team to understand what it is we do, because your person at the front desk could have very easily just come from the bank as a bank teller or whatever.

[00:10:23] Dr. Bruce Baird: They may or may not have experience. And to be honest, I’m akay with hiring somebody with absolutely no experience because I want to teach them from the, from day one. You know what our philosophy is when I say our philosophy, it’s a team philosophy of this is how we wanna do things. And so it’s kind of, it’s kind of funny.

[00:10:46] Dr. Bruce Baird: My first 15 years in practice, I’d hire you and say, you know what you’re doing? Just go do it. You know, because I got so much, I got so much stuff going on, and. I’m in debt and I’m, I’m just trying to make a business [00:11:00] work and I don’t have all that. I, I, you know, I think if I take time to train you, I’m taking time away from being with patients and making money.

[00:11:09] Dr. Bruce Baird: And when that changed, when I said, you know, it was probably 90, the early nineties when I. Was looking at the practice and I had a couple choices. I could, I could make this a heavy PPO driven practice, which I don’t care what kind of practice you, you have, but I could be a heavy PPO hire three or four dentists.

[00:11:32] Dr. Bruce Baird: I could be on the golf course every day. And, um. But that wasn’t my philosophy. That’s not why I got into dentistry. And so I decided I was gonna have be high tech, high touch. Uh, you became a huge part of that, as did the entire team. And we brought in all kinds of technology and we began to change our focus to, and I don’t wanna say change our focus.

[00:11:55] Dr. Bruce Baird: ’cause early in my career, man, I was going to every course and I was learning at the [00:12:00] top levels. But when I’d come back, my partner, oh, he never went anywhere, never went to any courses. And then when we kind of separated, I had that choice. We, we can do this, that, or the other. But our hygiene department, to me, was so critical in, in, in building the kind of practice that I wanted to build, which was working on friends, working on, you know, having it, even though we.

[00:12:27] Dr. Bruce Baird: Weren’t marketing and advertising that, you know, we, we only work on our friends. We would get in relationship with all of our patients from the front office to the back. And it became very easy to market, you know, and a lot of it came from them, from the patients.

[00:12:46] Machell Hoover: Yeah. I’ll tell you, um, um, I will, one of my greatest gifts.

[00:12:56] Machell Hoover: From above is, um, is [00:13:00] knowing you and Cynthia and, and, and Jeff and experiencing the way that we were able to love our patients. Yeah. Um, we, we, um, learned together. We grew together. It was messy at times. As we were taking on these. New like initiatives. Um, so just so, so many people I hear all the time, that’s too hard.

[00:13:27] Machell Hoover: It’s too much. Well, let’s goal set to success and there’s always gonna be that uncomfortable. But train your brave. And because our patients deserve it, and guess what we do too. And that’s what we did in, in our office and, and we had. You know, you cannot be successful at this without a, a. I know everybody wants to say the heart of a practice is the hygienist where we do get to spend the bulk of the time with the patient.

[00:13:58] Machell Hoover: However, [00:14:00] I just disagree with that statement. I believe that everybody, when you have a calibrated team, that whole team together is the heart of that practice. And that’s what we experienced. Thanks to you Bruce, and I will, I will love you forever. Um, for I am, I am who I am today in large part because of, of what you allowed us to do in our practice.

[00:14:27] Dr. Bruce Baird: Well, I appreciate that. I, what I can tell you is. If you want to have a practice at the highest level, you’re, you’re, and I’m talking to docs right now, you’re, you’re not gonna do it by yourself. You know, you can think you are, you know, when I say you’re the source. Yes. In many ways, you’re the source of the information that gets to your team.

[00:14:51] Dr. Bruce Baird: But if you’re narrow in your scope, if you’re, oh, we’re gonna do more crowns this month, or this, this, we didn’t do enough fillings last [00:15:00] month. If that becomes your focus. Which is very insurance driven and you know, because, oh, we can only do this much this year because of insurance. What are your thoughts as far as hygiene and insurance?

[00:15:13] Dr. Bruce Baird: Dental insurance is, is that something, do you look first at their insurance and then look and decide what, what you’re gonna treatment plan and why do you go in and do blood pressure and health history and all of that? So why do you do that first after you’ve gotten to know ’em? Um.

[00:15:29] Machell Hoover: So I’m gonna set this up because I think it’s really important, um, because we’re already getting, you know, uh, there are people who are like, there’s just no way that this happened and, or that it could be replicated.

[00:15:45] Machell Hoover: I’m gonna share with you, uh, that what you already know, but with everyone watching and listening is, uh, under. It when you practice this philosophy of care, [00:16:00] uh, where you’re treating the whole person and you’re partnering with this patient, um, and you will see, and it takes about four to six months for this to happen, but what you’re gonna see is patients and I, I experienced this for my entire career working with you, Bruce.

[00:16:23] Machell Hoover: For the first time, patients always love or almost always love the majority, love their hygienist. Yes. Even their doctor, right? And, uh, but I’m gonna tell you, uh, what you know, but maybe some of you don’t. Uh, the pandemic is a perfect example. Um, they’re gonna love me all day long because I’m fun and I love talking about their experiences and seeing ’em and catching up, whether it’s three, four or six months.

[00:16:51] Machell Hoover: However, we go through a challenging season, um, we lose someone that we love. Um. [00:17:00] Financial, um, um, um, tragedy of, um, pandemic. Um, this is what’s different when you’re in relationship with your patient and they have full understanding. There is clarity and, and. Why they need to come and see their hygienist every three, four or six months.

[00:17:26] Machell Hoover: And please, let’s like underscore, this is not determined based on if they are a healthy prophy patient, a perio patient. We’re also looking at the health history. We’re looking at the airway. Perio risk and carrie’s risk. ’cause guess what? You know as well as I do, we had patients that were not a perio risk, but were a high carrie’s risk and they got to hang out with us more often.

[00:17:54] Machell Hoover: And, uh, uh, and, and that has to start with bringing, so [00:18:00] everyone thinks, Bruce, and you know this, why are patients not accepting treatment? Why do patients not accept treatment? Most people are gonna say cost. Yeah. Wrong. So enough surveys out there that show that the reason patients do not accept treatment, actually the more majority is gonna be because they don’t trust their healthcare professionals.

[00:18:24] Machell Hoover: So that’s you, doc, or me, hygienist. And, uh, we’re the providers to two, uh, three and four according to one survey. So 1, 2, 3, 4 is trust and understanding. Finally, fifth reason is financial. There’s other surveys. Overjet just did one too, very much compliments that, um, that same survey. And so for us to bring clarity to our patients, they have [00:19:00] got to and they deserve.

[00:19:02] Machell Hoover: To understand what their disease state is, what their risks are, and if we are not starting with that health history, understanding beyond what used to be the standard of care, but actually understanding. Cardiovascular risk, dementia, Alzheimer’s risk, autoimmune, and how each of those airway risks when you’re doing Epworth stop, bang, or even asking about their sleep.

[00:19:30] Machell Hoover: What are their behaviors, lifestyle, behaviors, drinking, smoking, diet, and even if they don’t have an airway problem, how do they sleep? Connecting all of those pieces before you’ve ever even looked in their mouth. You already have a pretty good idea of what their risks are gonna be between perio, caries and airway.

[00:19:52] Machell Hoover: You’re starting that conversation then, and you can do this assistance, you can do this really well, and hey, we even train [00:20:00] business team to have a foundational understanding, so you can do that. First interaction is on the phone and a patient calls with concern and you can be that first touch point.

[00:20:13] Machell Hoover: About airway risk. Keep it simple. We’re not trying to like, uh, pack on too much healthcare responsibility with our team. We’re just trying with our business team. But foundational and being able to have this consistent communication throughout the entire practice brings clarity and trust to the patient.

[00:20:32] Machell Hoover: Let’s move to blood pressure. Look, this is one of my pet peeves when, uh, anyone says I don’t have time to do blood pressure. You don’t have time not to do blood pressure. No. We know that one in three Americans have hypertension. Only one in four are concern, uh, are are controlled. And we know that there’s not a little bit of connection between our bucket of care.

[00:20:58] Machell Hoover: So periodontal [00:21:00] carries pathogens and hey, guess what? Airway screening is in our bucket of care now too. There is significant connection between blood pressure and all of these risks. We have a responsibility, and actually in many states, Texas, where we practiced, we absolutely had to take blood pressure.

[00:21:18] Machell Hoover: There was no, I don’t have time. When you start explaining to your patient why there is this connection, it’s why do you take my blood pressure in the dental chair? Anyway, I’m just here for a cleaning. Oh my gosh. I haven’t seen you in six months. Let me share with you what our team has been learning and then connect perio, connect airway, and, and connect peri apical abscesses.

[00:21:46] Machell Hoover: And I’ll tell you what, you will not, you will always have some like negative Nellys that come in your office, but 95% of your patients are going for. First time see real value [00:22:00] in what you bring to the table in their health. Yeah. And head and neck exam. Uh, I wish we had a lot of time. I’ll tell you what, that’s probably the most in, in the modules.

[00:22:12] Machell Hoover: The most time I spent was in those head and neck modules because there is, you know, most people think head and neck, Bruce, and they think. Cancer screening. That’s all we’re doing is cancer screening significant, right? We know that head and neck cancers continue. New cases continue to rise. This is, we, we just like blood pressure.

[00:22:34] Machell Hoover: It’s not if we have time, it’s. We don’t have time not to be screening. And I know just in our office, um, there were five of my patients that, uh, were, um, we referred to Dr. Warner’s office and diagnosed with cancer. That’s just in, in, in my time with you, Bruce, I had a patient in an office before that. So if, if [00:23:00] you’re looking, um, I was told a long time ago by one of my professors that we probably would never find cancer in a patient.

[00:23:09] Machell Hoover: Um, uh, the prevalence keeps increasing. I, I, I venture to guess. That believe that most of us will find cancer in, in our patients.

[00:23:21] Dr. Bruce Baird: Karen. Karen too,

[00:23:22] Machell Hoover: can’t not look. And if a patient is diagnosed with a head and neck cancer and you did not have this conversation, that is on you. And I would not want that on me.

[00:23:30] Machell Hoover: I would not want that on my shoulders, uh, because this is, you know, this is a significant quality of life. Destroyer. Sure.

[00:23:42] Dr. Bruce Baird: Um, and I always love that thought. I always love it when docs, you know, they see something, they see a lesion, or they see something, they go, you know, I don’t know what that is. And you know, they may not even say that out loud.

[00:23:53] Dr. Bruce Baird: They go, yeah, well keep an eye on that for six months or whatever. Well, you know, or they’ll put it out on the threads. How do I [00:24:00] treat this or how do I treat that? I go, I treat it really quick. I call Mike Warner, my buddy up in Weatherford, oral surgeon, pathologist, and I go, Hey, I got a patient I want you to check out.

[00:24:10] Dr. Bruce Baird: I, you know, we don’t have to be everything for everybody, but what we have to do is be able to visualize, Hey, this is different. You know, this is not necessarily. Normal. So let’s find out exactly what it is. And um, one of the things that you did so well and, and still do so well is, I mean, obviously communicate, but it, it takes patience from, I know I hear it after every exam and I know you heard it, but it’s like, why has no one else done this before?

[00:24:46] Dr. Bruce Baird: And it, it’s easy to throw somebody under the bus, but I like what you said a little bit ago. Oh well. I don’t have to throw anybody on the bus. All I have to do is say, oh my gosh, we’re learning so much new stuff. I’m sharing with you new stuff. [00:25:00] And I think the role of a hygienist, and tell me if, if I’m on, on track, but it’s being, uh, a healthcare professional is being a consultant.

[00:25:10] Dr. Bruce Baird: In other words, I, I have studied all of these blood, you know, I, I’ve studied all of these, you know, blood pressure and those kind of things. I love. I love Wade Keifer talking about, you know, the heart attack gene. You know, ’cause Wade had a heart attack at 37 years old. Thin, good rant, you know, and everything else.

[00:25:32] Dr. Bruce Baird: But he had a heart attack. But he found out he had a gene that he had, you know, with Brad, Brad Bale and, and Amy. And so. He talks to his patients that way. It’s like, you know, we have Gene, I have a gene that I have to take care of. You have a gene, you have genes, or you have a hereditary component to this that makes you more susceptible to gum disease.

[00:25:56] Dr. Bruce Baird: Does that make sense? Does that make sense? Does that make sense? And we’re always [00:26:00] asking patients, and as long as they’re saying, oh yeah, I mean, I didn’t even realize that I want to be the best consultant for my patients. And when we do that. Money always takes care of itself. And just like you said, yeah, there’ll be some negative Nellie’s that’ll, you know, well, I’ve never had a problem before and I went to a dentist before and they never said any of that.

[00:26:21] Dr. Bruce Baird: Well, it more has to do with. Uh, those patients being difficult to connect with, you know, the ones I found, if I didn’t connect with them, then my trust wasn’t quite there, you know, and I’m not connecting, uh, on a medical level or dental level I’m connecting on. So you live over here? Yeah. So, you know.

[00:26:44] Dr. Bruce Baird: Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, some people are hard to connect with, but. You are a master at being able to get in there and actually get to, to know the patient and building that trust. Same thing that Wade said yesterday when I was talking to [00:27:00] Wade. He, he said, well, you build trust and you just. Then you’re that consultant.

[00:27:05] Dr. Bruce Baird: So how, you know, do you, do you notice those things?

[00:27:08] Machell Hoover: Yeah. You know what’s funny is, so Camie, um, um, one of our best friends and, uh, hygienist and her room was always next to mine. And, um, she would just sometimes, ’cause I am. I’m gonna tell you what I see. I am very real and uh, um, and I take my, my, um, responsibility very seriously.

[00:27:34] Machell Hoover: I’m not a disease babysitter and, um, because that’s practicing sick care and I don’t believe in practicing sick care. I believe in practicing healthcare with real care. And, uh, and you were always very supportive of that. So thank you for that. But Cammi, you still like come around the corner. When I would walk some patients up, those difficult patients and she’d be like, sometimes like, I can’t even be [00:28:00] like, your patients love you.

[00:28:02] Machell Hoover: And it’s like that patient, I thought that patient was gonna get up and walk out Michelle. And I think that’s your patient for life, those difficult patients because I. It’s so real and I do bring clarity and I understand you’ve always been treated this way before, but we know how to be better now. Yeah.

[00:28:21] Machell Hoover: And I’m not here to tell you what to do, but, uh, you are, you are a stage three, uh, periodontal patient that is a very high risk patient. You also have hypertension. So we know that, uh, periodontal pathogens up to 50% of heart attack. Uh, there is an oral pathogen connection and, um, and then, uh, hypertension stroke, you have a three to four times greater likelihood of stroke.

[00:28:52] Machell Hoover: So where I understand you don’t want this non-surgical, periodontal therapy, you just want that regular cleaning. I can’t provide that service because [00:29:00] my license prohibits me from doing so. Sure,

[00:29:03] Dr. Bruce Baird: sure.

[00:29:04] Machell Hoover: And uh, um, and so I had a few of those, but, um Oh, really?

[00:29:08] Dr. Bruce Baird: Did, yeah.

[00:29:09] Machell Hoover: But the majority of them stayed and even some of them be stayed like pain in the butts forever, you know who we’re talking about.

[00:29:17] Machell Hoover: Oh yeah. Um, but they showed up when they were supposed to. There was, uh, not uncommon for them to push back, but you just bring the clarity. You just have to be very firm with them. And, um. And, uh, and I, and, and you know that you’ve improved their quality of life, whether they ever admit it to you or not.

[00:29:36] Dr. Bruce Baird: Yeah. It’s like being firm with somebody who likes you. That, I mean, that is, you know, if they don’t like you, then pretty much it doesn’t matter what you say. And that’s where that relationship and trust and all that, I mean, really plays, uh, you know, really plays an unbelievable role. But, uh, how did, how did your, you know, personal story, you know, have.

[00:29:59] Dr. Bruce Baird: [00:30:00] You know, everything going through hygiene, everything. And how did that shape you as far as hygiene, advocacy and, and you know, saying, this is what, you know, this is what I’m meant to do. I mean, when did that hit you?

[00:30:13] Machell Hoover: Um.

[00:30:15] Dr. Bruce Baird: So,

[00:30:16] Machell Hoover: uh, in high school I had a friend that was going to, uh, Texas Women’s and, uh, she was going into their hygiene program.

[00:30:23] Machell Hoover: And I’ve always been attracted to smiles. And I’m not talking just someone with beautiful, uh, uh, teeth, like, um, like a supermodel or something. Um, um. Smiles like you can see a patient’s soul with her smile. So I’ve always been attracted to that. So she tried to talk me into going to college with her and I was like.

[00:30:45] Machell Hoover: You can kick me when you see me. Anybody who’s watching this, you can kick me when you see me. ’cause it’s the one time in my life that I did not see. I didn’t understand what it meant to be a healthcare advocate. Um, but I was like, I’m [00:31:00] not cleaning teeth for a living. I. And, uh, uh, fast forward. I can’t tell you how many times that I would be out.

[00:31:07] Machell Hoover: It’s like I was just being led, like this was, there was no doubt it was my purpose or part of my purpose because I was, um, so often, are you in dentistry? Are you a hygienist? Are you an assistant, whatever. Because I was young and then I got pregnant and had a precious baby at 23. And, uh, that is where my real first sense of purpose, um, um, blessed me and, um, unhealthy relationship, uh, with his dad.

[00:31:41] Machell Hoover: And although we get along really, really great, just not meant to be together, um, I knew I had to be able to take care of this baby and give him everything that he deserved in life. Right. And, uh, without struggle at, at least as much as I could control that. Mm-hmm. And, and dental hygiene is a [00:32:00] perfect profession for families.

[00:32:04] Machell Hoover: Yeah. And, and I, and I knew that I would work for doctors that supported family first, and, uh, no one does that better than you, Bruce. And, um, and so I just. Instantly loved it, uh, even before school, while in college. And there was just like, it was very much who I was supposed to be. Uh, I loved it. Every freaking second that I’ve been in this profession I have.

[00:32:39] Machell Hoover: Loved it. Monday morning was never hard for me. Uh, as a matter of fact, do you remember how Karen used to tell me, Bruce, Michelle, you need to like, um, uh, like joy down, like Yeah,

[00:32:54] Dr. Bruce Baird: take a chill pill. Just relax little. Yeah, I know, I know.

[00:32:58] Machell Hoover: Happy. [00:33:00] And, um, and then I started working for you and, and, and it was.

[00:33:08] Machell Hoover: Completely different. It was where I really was like, ’cause again, y’all have to remember I wasn’t looking for a job. This was faith driven. And I learned very quickly that was going on under that green roof. Bruce? Yep. Really special. And it was so much more, although I never felt that I was just a teeth cleaner.

[00:33:31] Machell Hoover: I never did I feel that way. Um, but we were, you know, having that airway, treating airway growth and development and, and then really being passionate about treating what you see. ’cause I knew that periodontal disease, even in the infancy of really understanding oral and systemic health, I knew that inflammation in the mouth.

[00:33:55] Machell Hoover: Affected the body. And at that time we really only had, um, a [00:34:00] strong understanding with, uh, uh, the bidirectional, uh, uh, relationship between diabetes and periodontal disease, and then of course, adverse pregnancy outcomes. But I just knew that there was more, you believed that there was more. Jeff believed there was more.

[00:34:15] Machell Hoover: We our, like our entire team knew that there was more. And then, uh, so I just. Um, I just want everyone to just love and be passionate about the blessings that we have to be healthcare professionals in the biggest significant, um, driver in, in, in sharing outside of the clinical setting. ’cause I never wanted to do anything else.

[00:34:41] Machell Hoover: I wanted to love my sweet patients for my entire career and, yeah. Was when Bryson, my son, my general giant, um, diagnosed with a DHD when he was in first grade, went to multiple doctors, integrative doctors, functional medicine, and everyone just kept telling [00:35:00] me I was gonna have to medicate him. And even a child psychiatrist told me that if I didn’t medicate my child, he wouldn’t thrive in life.

[00:35:08] Machell Hoover: He got sick, uh, tonsillitis, uh, strep throat, upper respiratory infections. He slept terrible. And guess what doctors wanted me, it, my child in elementary school, Bruce, they wanted me to give my child Ambien and uh, and I was just crushed this holistic minded mama. And, and everyone is trying to push drugs down my baby’s throat, and it was devastating to finally finding answers.

[00:35:39] Machell Hoover: Where I work because it was one of our, um, it was a doctor who didn’t practice airway that actually took care of my son the first couple of years that I worked for Bruce. What You and Jeff and, and I was so new in airway and you couldn’t just go learn it anywhere at that time. [00:36:00] And so I was really focused on obstructive sleep apnea in adults.

[00:36:03] Machell Hoover: And then screening growth and development in children and learning. And very uncomfortable at that time because there, there’s education everywhere today. Uh. But I didn’t even think about airway with my child. And when Jeff looked at him and we did A-C-B-C-T on him and we did a sleep study on him and he was like, you’ve got to get those tonsils out.

[00:36:28] Machell Hoover: And, uh, his sleep study, he’s a high risk when we did the sleep study. So fast forward to, um, we get those tonsils and adenoids out at 16. And, um, it was supposed to be four months for his surgery and he was so severe. Not the worst case the doctor had ever seen, but one of ’em. And so he got him in two weeks later for surgery.

[00:36:53] Machell Hoover: Tonsils, adenoids came out. He did some mild functional therapy. And, uh, that child is a sleep [00:37:00] snob because he, even today, at 26, spent most of his life not knowing what healthy. Airway healthy breathing was right and it’s healthcare that, um, it’s unintentional neglect not to look or ask about sleep. And Bruce, y’all like without you and Jeff prioritizing airway in this very new space at that time and, um, you saved my child from all the things that we know happened when you have obstructive sleep apnea.

[00:37:37] Dr. Bruce Baird: Yeah. Yeah. It’s been, you know, it’s something that when I heard, um, you know, when I heard some of the top people in sleep, in fact, that’s, I was at a sleep meeting when I first met Dr. Buskey. Yeah. Or I got him to come over and meet with me. But the, the funny part was I am, I, I knew that I had apnea, [00:38:00] but I didn’t understand all of it, you know, and, and.

[00:38:03] Dr. Bruce Baird: I didn’t wanna wear A-C-P-A-P, so I wore eight different oral appliances until finally I wear a C, CPAP now, and I, I, I, I live, I, I live so much better. I mean, I sleep better. But as a kid, I was that kid, you know, I was, you know, I was breast, I mean, I, I had allergies. I had, you know, you see people with the crease in the nose from doing this all day long.

[00:38:25] Dr. Bruce Baird: Um, and I was A-D-D-A-D-H, DAD, whatever, d. You know, but I’m, I’m telling you, and back then we didn’t take tonsils out, you know, it was just, you know, you, you know, I, I, when I was growing up, everybody got their tonsils out, you know? Then it got to be where you had to have nine positive strep tests before they’d do it.

[00:38:46] Dr. Bruce Baird: So I never got mine out. So I was one of those that was really suffering with a DD and a DHD, and then all of a sudden it gets to today where it’s hard to get ’em. To get, take their tonsils out. Well now we’re seeing so much more behavioral problems with [00:39:00] kids and that drives straight into adulthood. So that, you know, those are all important things that I think differentiate the way that we talk to patients, the way we look at patients.

[00:39:12] Dr. Bruce Baird: Um. I want people to understand that this is not something that happens overnight. Um, it has to be a philosophy that, you know, and it has to be a philosophy that we don’t know everything. And obviously the more I learn, the more I realize I don’t know. So. I’m constantly reading, I’m constantly looking at stuff.

[00:39:39] Dr. Bruce Baird: I’m sending you stuff in the middle of the night. I go, oh, that’s cool. And I know you’ve already read ’em, but I’m gonna keep sending them. But, uh, it’s just because I, and, and I had put the handpiece down six years ago, so, um, but I did go in and do an exam last week on one of my friends, just, uh, just for the heck of it.

[00:39:58] Dr. Bruce Baird: ’cause they wanted me to. [00:40:00] Tell ’em what they really had as opposed to going to the dentist and having ’em tell ’em what they need or whatever. And, uh, I think that’s the difference, uh, in, in the way that we treat, treat our patients. One other thing is that, that people get really freaked out about is, I mean, a lot of offices are selling to, to DSOs, you know, they’re going into that environment and.

[00:40:25] Dr. Bruce Baird: That I, I don’t think that that has to change how, in fact, it’s really wild. But I just got a text from one of my friends earlier this morning that, uh, we’re on this, they want us to put on a new schedule and I think this schedule’s gonna really hurt us and all this stuff. And, uh, they don’t want us to do this or they don’t want us to do that.

[00:40:47] Dr. Bruce Baird: The bottom line is, I don’t know of any DSO that is going to come and chew your butt out, Michelle, for being a great, uh, a great hygienist, a [00:41:00] great, you know, you know what I’m saying? Did you notice, ’cause we sold to Heartland Dental back a long time ago. Did that change our philosophy?

[00:41:07] Machell Hoover: Uh, absolutely not as a matter of fact.

[00:41:11] Machell Hoover: Uh, how often do they come and want to learn? From us because we were, uh, always practicing at the highest level of care. Yeah. Yeah. It, um, and I understand the anxiety that that teams have because we had it too. And, and, and, and I, we were devastated. Um, when you sold and. And, uh, then we learned, wait, okay.

[00:41:44] Machell Hoover: Our, you know, benefits are actually better.

[00:41:49] Dr. Bruce Baird: Yeah.

[00:41:49] Machell Hoover: Um, through the pandemic, uh, they really took care of us. Yeah. And uh, um, when I had major [00:42:00] shoulder surgery, I blew my shoulder out. Everything was repaired and they were so kind through that entire experience, philosophy of care. Um, we kept doing what we had always done, and here I work with a lot of DSOs and I, I, I’m gonna share my, and, and I would love your, um, perspective on this too.

[00:42:27] Machell Hoover: Um, doc is, um. There is, you know, here’s the thing about social media, and let’s touch on the messiness between hygienist and doctor’s tube. And you often hear the messiest is in DSO space. Um, what we know is that, uh, what was it that you used to say, um, Bruce, that for every, like if you have an unhappy patient, they’re gonna tell 10 people.

[00:42:57] Machell Hoover: If you have a really happy patient, they’re [00:43:00] gonna tell like three or four

[00:43:01] Dr. Bruce Baird: people. Three. Yep.

[00:43:03] Machell Hoover: There is, there are a lot of teams that are really happy. Um, I, I, I believe I’ve had this conversation with many people. We know there’s probably about 10% of us in healthcare that are practicing at the highest level.

[00:43:17] Machell Hoover: Yeah. There’s about 40 to 50% that want to practice at the highest level, and they just need guidance and someone to build their confidence. Yep, we’ve got that 40, 50% that they’re fine doing it the way they’ve always done it. And so if they wanna practice sick care, they’re poor patients, what a disadvantage to their patients.

[00:43:36] Machell Hoover: But let’s focus on where we can provide change. And there are a lot of great DSOs that really want to provide really elevated care and bring the education and bring the opportunity to the team. And it has more to do not with the DSO. The majority of the time from the team, the DSOs I’ve worked with, it’s not the [00:44:00] DSO that is the problem.

[00:44:02] Machell Hoover: It is the practice and the leader in the practice. And also this is, this has got to be stated. Um, if you are going in and if I meet you in the middle of the hallway and Bruce, you are not doing this for me, and we have got to talk about it today, do you think. That that is going to, like, Bruce is gonna be like, I mean, that’s not how you have a healthy conversation.

[00:44:30] Machell Hoover: No. However, Bruce, can we talk tomorrow morning or tomorrow after work and bring the data and uh, remember when we wanted more lasers and Yeah, we’re all sharing a laser and it was, pull your hair out because we were doing, I did lasers on more patients than not Right. And. And you said, okay, well here’s the goal.

[00:44:54] Machell Hoover: Is this a healthy goal? And if we meet this, you meet this goal, we’re gonna get you whatever you want. [00:45:00] DSOs are easy to work with like that, and it’s not no. To that raise. It is whether you’re DSO or private, uh, solo owner prac, uh, practice. Um, it is our, we. Listening to what everybody on the team needs. And, um, so do we feel heard and are we intentionally, um, uh, also hearing what the other person needs?

[00:45:28] Machell Hoover: So when we all meet together, um, uh, really that’s where you’re gonna see. And I feel like that’s what we had, not that there weren’t some moments of messiness. Um, sure, sure. Um, yeah, as long

[00:45:39] Dr. Bruce Baird: as, I mean, I think it doesn’t matter who. Um, in, in any business. I mean, it doesn’t matter necessarily who the owner is, right?

[00:45:48] Dr. Bruce Baird: They’re not gonna affect me on what I’m telling my patients and what I’m doing with my patients. I, you know, so that, that was kind of one of those deals, you know, where I would, um, they’re not gonna change [00:46:00] me, you know? Uh, it, it, it, there’s opportunities. I knew that. We could get better healthcare, we could, uh, you know, for all of our employees, we had a huge team, 26, 27 people, and it just, it fit at the time.

[00:46:14] Dr. Bruce Baird: Uh, would I do it again? Um, you know what, I don’t ever go back and say, oh, I wish I would’ve, you know, I’m, I made the choices that we made. Tell me a little bit, and while we wrap up today be, but thanks so much for being on with me this morning. It’s been so much fun. But tell me a little bit about.

[00:46:33] Dr. Bruce Baird: Clinical calibration and what you’ve been working on and what our, what our listeners can expect from the Clinical Calibration Institute.

[00:46:44] Machell Hoover: You know, it’s, it’s like you get to bring. Everything that I have learned, uh, since working, um, um, and learning with you. So it’s, it’s all of [00:47:00] that and, um, it’s, it’s teaching.

[00:47:03] Machell Hoover: So we know that consultants, um, everyone should have a coach. Everyone should have a coach. Um, uh, the most successful people in the world always have a coach. Mm-hmm. And, um, so we always had coaches. Um, we also know not everybody sees value in coaches. And there’s a consultant on every block, um, or 10 consultants on a block today telling you they’re promising you all of these.

[00:47:36] Machell Hoover: Things and uh, and then they don’t deliver. So there’s a, there’s a lot of anxiety around who, who do I use? Well, clinical Calibration Institute, uh, from my. My perspective is we’re creating everything that we take as a consultant in from risk factors and really unpacking [00:48:00]with clarity, each risk. Um, the overview is the why.

[00:48:05] Machell Hoover: So why is, you know, the oral and systemic, um. Oral and systemic, don’t bring oral and systemic into my office. I’m not ready for that. Well, guess what? It’s the standard of care today and it is what turns the light bulb on with, uh, for healthcare professionals and. Our patients.

[00:48:24] Dr. Bruce Baird: Patients, yeah.

[00:48:25] Machell Hoover: PCI is bringing that, uh, with oral and systemic and, and so many more pieces.

[00:48:31] Machell Hoover: But what I’m doing is oral and systemic weaving, oral and systemic in through all the risk factors. Um, staging and grading. Um, uh, it is just one piece of the perio puzzle, right. And, uh, Dr. Kim Koch has been a long time friend of yours. Um, a dear friend and, uh, a mentor of mine has done our Carrie’s risk.

[00:48:56] Machell Hoover: And, um, and did you, [00:49:00] have you seen that? It’s,

[00:49:01] Dr. Bruce Baird: it’s, yeah.

[00:49:02] Machell Hoover: So how we practice in our office was really Kim Koch. Like I know that you brought, and I didn’t even recognize that at first. Um, but as I was getting to know, I was like, oh, well Bruce and Kim, like this is where our Carrie’s management comes from. And uh, ’cause he is brilliant.

[00:49:18] Machell Hoover: That’s his, his well’s so

[00:49:20] Dr. Bruce Baird: hard. It’s so hard to go to. Let’s say you wanted to cross the board to, to raise your level of care. Well, in many ways you’re gonna have to go to 10 different courses.

[00:49:30] Machell Hoover: Oh, for sure. Ah, this is the

[00:49:31] Dr. Bruce Baird: first time, and Kim even said that. He says, this is the first time I’ve ever been able to teach Carrie’s management.

[00:49:38] Dr. Bruce Baird: Um. As a part of a whole without

[00:49:41] Machell Hoover: having a consultant.

[00:49:43] Dr. Bruce Baird: Yeah.

[00:49:43] Machell Hoover: Um, there is nothing out there that I know that provides what you learn with, um, uh, an elevated consultant. ’cause there are different types of consult. Oh, sure. So, um, so that whole body. [00:50:00] Risk factor perspective from perio to caries to airway, uh, group function into airway, um, and then real solutions, adjunctive and ’cause it’s not a one size fit all.

[00:50:15] Machell Hoover: Do you agree with that? Yeah. Um, so bringing. Yeah, like, you know, not everyone can use later lasers. Uh, um, but, um, what are other options? Um, subject, airflow, like we’re bringing all of these pieces to one place. Case studies, masterminds, monthly masterminds. Jody and I do the Mastermind for hygiene. You do the doctors, you take care of doc.

[00:50:41] Machell Hoover: Um, um, uh, hygienist and assistance, uh, assistance. Man, if we train our assistants up, they are so great at co-diagnosis. They should be part of our co-diagnosis team. Oh, yeah. Uh, hygienist. There’s no way if done [00:51:00] right that we should ever have any anxiety about bringing and elevating our assistance. Do I want them doing our job?

[00:51:05] Machell Hoover: They don’t need to be doing our job.

[00:51:07] Dr. Bruce Baird: Right. Right.

[00:51:08] Machell Hoover: They do play when it comes to airway management, I mean, that should be ran by an assistant, unless you the hygiene doing mild functional therapy and that’s all she wants to do. Are he Right. But yeah, it’s a one stop shop case studies role playing. Um, and then the next phase we’ll start creating, um, what I love the most, Bruce.

[00:51:32] Machell Hoover: And that’s where we actually start going through right now. We’re weaving in oral and systemic through all the risk factors and, uh, um, but what we’re gonna do after we finish adjunctive. Um, so towards the end of the year is you’ll start seeing cardiovascular disease and weaving in which you’ve already started learning, but where we’re talking cardiovascular disease and tying in, uh, perio caries and [00:52:00] airway, and teaching you how to communicate this with your patients.

[00:52:04] Machell Hoover: Um. It’s, it’s a one-stop shop. I think that’s the easiest way it is. And I mean,

[00:52:08] Dr. Bruce Baird: you know, for most people that, you know, you can go to productive dentist uh.com. You can see the information about, uh, clinical Calibration Institute. Um, I think the cost is like 500 bucks or something a month for, for the entire team.

[00:52:24] Dr. Bruce Baird: So this is not, I mean, you don’t have to take a team to nine different courses, which would. This is something, back when I was first starting in dentistry, I learned we didn’t have the internet. We didn’t have all that stuff. We learned in study clubs. Well, this is like a study club on steroids with the top leading people.

[00:52:43] Dr. Bruce Baird: You know, a study club for me was going over with five or six or seven or eight or 10 of the top dentists in my area and learning from them. Now you’re able to take the top dentists in their field in their. Area of, of, uh, [00:53:00] of oral systemic or airway or caries control and all of that stuff. So anyway, I hope you guys take advantage of it.

[00:53:08] Dr. Bruce Baird: Um, Michelle Hoover, thank you so much for being an amazing friend and, and, uh, a great teacher. And I’m so proud of you and I’m looking forward to CCI and I’m looking forward to the next few years of watching how it grows into, I think, a phenomenal way of educating. An entire team on where to go next and what to do next, and we’re gonna always keep it fresh.

[00:53:32] Dr. Bruce Baird: But thanks so much, Michelle, for being on with me.

[00:53:36] Machell Hoover: Um, thanks for, um, believing in me. I say this, um, so I carry you and our team, um, everywhere I go, and I’m so proud of where I come from and so I, I share often that every patient deserves for us to believe in them until they believe in themselves. And the same thing goes [00:54:00] as a consultant.

[00:54:02] Machell Hoover: Um, um, is every team that we have the opportunity that we’re blessed to work with, we get to believe in that team until that team believes. Um, in themselves and that all is, is, you know, it began with you seeing you and Cynthia seeing something special in me and believing in me until I learned to believe in myself.

[00:54:25] Machell Hoover: So thank you for that. That

[00:54:26] Dr. Bruce Baird: was, that was easy. So everybody that’s This’s been the Productive Dentist podcast. Tell your friends about it. I look forward to the next time we’re together, Michelle.

[00:54:35] Machell Hoover: You too. Thank you.