Episode 196 – The Duel of the Business Operating Systems

“If you set up 20 goals, you might only accomplish one or two; but if you only set up one goal, you aren’t moving fast enough.” ~Dr. Chad Johnson

In this episode of Everyday Practices Podcast, co-hosts Dr. Chad Johnson and Regan Robertson fulfill the promise they made to listeners as they delve into two “dueling operating systems”: Business Made Simple and Traction. We have all heard the saying “Different strokes for different folks,” and the same can certainly be said for business operating systems. Just like choosing a pair of shoes that fits our style and purpose, every business needs a system that aligns with its goals and values.

The two methodologies that we highlight in this episode – Business Made Simple and Traction – have guided us in shaping our businesses, and we are excited to share our insights with you. Each system is different, but we explore how a small business might see even greater success by combining the two. We discuss the strengths of each system, how they complement each other, and how to implement them in order to reach new levels of success.

 As you listen to this episode, we want you to think about:

• Which business operating system rings true to you?
• Are one or both of these operating systems something you might consider applying to your own business/practice?
• How could your team benefit from applying the tenets of a business operating system like Business Made Simple or Traction?

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Regan 0:01
Hi Doctor, Regan Robertson, CCO of Productive Dentist Academy here, and I have a question for you. Are you finding it hard to get your team aligned to your vision, but you know, you deserve growth just like everybody else? That’s why we’ve created the PDA productivity workshop. For nearly 20 years, PDA workshops have helped dentists just like you align their teams, get control of scheduling, and create productive practices that they love walking into every day. Just imagine how you will feel when you know your schedule is productive. Your systems are humming, and your team is aligned to your vision. It’s simple, but it’s not necessarily easy. We can help visit productivedentist.com/workshop, that’s productivedentist.com/workshop to secure your seats now.

Regan
So for us to say we want to be profitable is fantastic. Why? Why is that important? You have to give me a reason as an employee to show up every day and want to contribute to this mission. Welcome to the Everyday Practices Podcast. I’m Regan Robertson, and my co-host, Dr. Chad Johnson and I are on a mission to share the stories of everyday dentists who generate extraordinary results using practical proven methods you can take right into your own dental practice. If you’re ready to elevate patient care and produce results that are anything but ordinary. Buckle up and listen in.

Dr. Chad Johnson 1:34
Hey, everybody, this is Chad Johnson, and welcome to Everyday Practices Dental podcast with my co-host Regan Robertson, Regan, how are you doing?

Regan 1:42
I am very happy to be here today and excited to get down in the weeds with you and discuss dueling operating systems,

Dr. Chad Johnson 1:50
Operating systems, what’s that mean, Regan?

Regan 1:55
This is our promise. So a few episodes back if you haven’t listened before wish fulfillment is here. Chad and I both have been through Business Made Simple and “Traction”, which is by Gino Wickman. Business Made Simple is by Donald Miller and so we discussed a few weeks ago, you know, going into the kind of giving them a throw down and giving the differences because it’s just like wearing shoes, Chad. So like shoes, Chad, we have our preferences, you know, there’s application, context is important. How are you going to use them? And I think the same goes for business operating systems as well, how you run your business? And so these are two particular methodologies that I know we’ve incorporated elements into PDA in our own philosophies as well. You have also implemented elements from both yes into branded dentistry. So that’s our wish fulfillment we’re going to particularly

Dr. Chad Johnson 2:51
Particularlyright now we’re going through a mission statement, just so you know, but you know, what are we are, we’re pushing through, I told the team, because we’ve had two meetings on it. And I’m just, you know, like lunch meetings, and I’m just like, I have to admit this, at first I pushed away, but then I was like, You know what I’m going to push into it. So I’m pushing into it, for what it’s

Regan 3:13
I want to push into it with you, that sounds really fun. So why don’t we go over and explain the differences of each one?

Dr. Chad Johnson 3:22
Let me explain. Also, another idea that I just had, if you had a floor of broken glass that you had to walk across, and that is business, you know, sharp, sharp obstacles, you know, issues, you can sit on the sideline and talk about the theory of which shoe should work, you know, but or you could walk across without shoes and get hurt, but any shoe is probably going to do to help you get so in other words, if you’re willing, you can get across the business landscape by applying any management system and in fact, de facto, you are implying implementing a business system. Regardless of having an, a formal business system, you know, the one that you’re doing might just be called, you’re the king and you make the choices and how’s that going and it might be going great, right? You know, it is an operating system, however you’re doing it.

Regan 4:18
This is a metaphor, I think, for you in many ways, for how I know you and I know myself so we’ve heard us on our podcast before say that we’re kind of like twins in certain areas. I have seen you be proud to probably walk across that broken glass for because you are tough enough to handle it and I think being a business owner sort of is you have to have a little bit of that resilience in you. So whether you have a system or not, right, you’re going to have to walk across that floor and I appreciate that, that was my takeaway from that is you could do it very painfully, or you could equip yourself with the proper equipment right and, and make your journey a lot easier.

Dr. Chad Johnson 4:57
If BMS was a pair of sneakers yours and EOS was a pair of work boots, both of them are going to keep your feet safe. Like it’s going to help you get across. So in other words, if someone’s like I, so we’ve Regan and I have always been talking back and forth, you know, like, well, I like this system better and I actually feel like “Traction” was the first mainstream effort that I know about to apply this kind of theory to, you know, small businesses and then Mike Michalowicz, who we had on a while back, talked about his man, I mean, it’s a management system and how he took, you know, big, hairy, audacious goal and made it into a bang for a noble goal and so that’s kind of started our discussion on EOS versus BMS, and even Donald Miller had come up with, you know, like taking these ideas and softening them and getting them more marketable, you know. So like, I felt like each new iteration was a softening, softening of how to implement and not softening in a bad way, like softening the sharp jaggedy corners.

Regan 6:09
I think what Donald Miller did with his was he used our innate ability to tell story, are you telling? Yeah, so he, yeah, so the BMS hook, if you will, from my perspective, is he’s taken the power of storytelling to make the process of operation system management, more memorable. So it’s so I think that is a good way to describe softening. From my perspective is once you know, once, you know, the seven part framework of a story that every single human engages every single day, and you see it, it’s almost like seeing into the matrix, once you see that you cannot unsee it and he has taken that seven-part story framework and applied it to every element of the business. Some, I think, to extremely successful heights, others, I’m like, I can tell I think this needs work as a business. Yes. So I don’t it’s not perfect. He knows it’s not perfect. Sure, but I massaging it. He, he and he brings in partners that have helped him and then they massage and collaborate together and I don’t know Gino Whitman’s enough, I read traction before I read story brands. So in traction when I first read it years ago, it did definitely seem like the end all be all answer to me in in so much that for a small business owner who might not have a pre-existing management system or an MBA, so I don’t have an MBA. So for having neither of those, I felt like it was like, it was like the Holy Grail. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I know how to do my meetings. Now I can set up my mission, I can do this and that.” So for me, though, with my marketing background, my visual storytelling, BMS made much more sense for me, and, and so I was able to apply it. So let’s go down the, let’s do one of each. So go ahead and tell me about traction and then I’ll tell everyone about BMS.

Dr. Chad Johnson 8:03
So I’ll start out by saying, I’m a work in progress two years into EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System and for me to summarize within five minutes is going to be close to ridiculous, but hopefully it gives you enough flavor. But I mean, this is hours and hours and hours of development, in quarterly meetings in, you know, initial meetings to discuss. So here I go. EOS is a complete set of simple concepts and practical tools that has helped 1000s of entrepreneurs around the world, get what they want from their businesses. So implementing EOS will help you and your leadership team, implying that you set up a leadership team get better at three things vision, traction, and health of having a cohesive, functional, healthy leadership team. When you have a healthy leadership team, you’re able to get traction, and you as the business owner have to cast the vision. Vision is getting everyone in the organization 100% on the same page to where you’re going and how you plan to get there. Then you get an implementer and traction talks about you know that you so it’s nice having someone like Victoria, in Productive Dentist Academy it’s it’s nice having someone like Reagan, to be able to you know, help implement this stuff. Traction is the idea that you can have awesome tires, but if you have a ton of torque you can throw down and you can still spin the tires, right? Or you can go really slow and you’ve got traction, but you’re going one mile per hour, are you actually making progress? So you want to be able to get your business spinning and moving in a direction and not just spinning a burnout with your tires and to do so in in business practical terms means once every 13 weeks, once a quarter, you are setting up to four maybe five goals, each of you in the leadership team and as a business that that you can implement to get something done by the end of the quarter. It’s a big, so first you go, here’s my vision, I want to make a million dollars in our dental office, and then everyone focuses on what is holding us up from making that million dollars, okay and if those are the things that are holding us up, if those are the issues, how can you set up a quarterly goal. So that way, by the end of it, we make those goals, we make the big vision goal, because we have implemented granular things and we’ve given ourselves a timeframe, we’ve set our rock up, that’s what gains us traction, that by the time we get done with the 13 weeks, if we have this done, we’re more likely to have been successful with the bigger vision of where are we trying to shoot for by the end of the year and if you, if you try and accomplish 20 things, you probably won’t accomplish 20 things you might get one or two things done. If you only set up one thing, but that’s not enough speed, you know, you’re not you’re only going one mile per hour in that car, you’re only getting one thing done. So can you set up two or four, maybe upwards of five things each, that by the time the quarter gets done, when you’re holding yourself accountable on a weekly, consistent basis that you can then make sure that you go back and go, “Yes, we got those goals done.” Regan, go.

Regan 11:28
You saw my face is, I’ve never thought about how because I love both Traction and I love Business Made Simple and I realized here is I’ve already, I’m already going to tell you what I think the difference is now so I’ll explain what Business Made Simple is, in comparison, when I heard you just say talk about that traction it, how fitting for the name too. You spoke a lot about how to take action. So it is all about divvying up different tasks and different objectives given the I think rocks is what they use is really the big quarterly terms, right? So you identify your priorities, like in a business plan, you milestone it out, and then it is all about getting action around those pieces. So that is a very data-driven model and I know traction does cover some of the more emotional elements. So it does cover the vision and the mission and things and what I just jotted down here is wow, you know what Business Made Simple to me as an organization has been, it helps you clarify who you are, what you believe in, why it matters, and most importantly, clarifying that so that you can communicate that with your team, and your target audience, be it your patience, be it b2b, whatever it is. So, so Business Made Simple takes, it takes the business, any business. Now both of these are catered to small business owners, not necessarily dental practices, per se, or healthcare, although both can be applied and Donald’s fun visual is he believes businesses should operate like an airplane. So the leadership is the cockpit for that and so what Donald Miller has done is he’s created a six disciplines, if you will, that will grow any small businesses and so he’s put them into these sections that visually make up an airplane. So you’ve got the leadership, which is the cockpit and the framework that goes with that is business on a mission, which is an online course. So you can buy the book, you can log into businessmadesimple.com.  andyou can go through interactive learning modules. I don’t know if Traction has something like that, but it’s been enormously helpful. I love online learning. You’re right, your right engine is your marketing. So that’s clarifying your message, the sales is the left engine of the plane. And there is the customer is the hero course, that helps you clarify your message around that the products are the wings, and he has a great new product optimization course to help you understand what products are profitable within your business how to do that audit, because some business owners don’t know how to really audit that either. So how to look at what you’re doing. The overhead is the body and that’s productivity and management made simple course. So that’s your employees, that’s your overhead and then cash flow is the fuel tanks of the plane. So he has a course name called Cash Flow made simple as well and so I personally have I’ve gone through all of the courses obviously since I am a Business Made Simple certified coach. I’ve been in this process now for several years and just like going to a PDA productivity workshop or maybe even a voice lesson. I think you get something each time you go back and you learn something new. Right, the most, the area that I have spent the most amount of time in is the leadership. So So the course is associated with leadership, which is the cockpit. So working on Yes, the mission statement clarifying that and you said you were going through the mission statement right now. And I don’t know if it was the BMS minus like,

Dr. Chad Johnson 15:12
Okay, it is. So tell, for the listeners’ sake tell the formula for that.

Regan 15:18
Oh my gosh. Okay. So when you think of mission statements, there’s the external facing one, which Chad has everyone go to random dentistry.com, go to their Facebook page, he has a beautiful social media presence and Chad believes that they are there to slay disease. So that’s the purpose of the practices that and there’s actually a beautiful external facing mission statement that has a lot of flowery language around why getting to optimal health is important that relates personally to Chad. Internally, though, with the team, when you’re trying to this is where traction and BMS come together, I think absolutely beautifully. Think of the mission as a military mission. So while you might want to win the war against disease, there’s going to be individual missions that you have to sign up for, and you have to achieve in order to get there and so your mission statement internally is an annual, it can have a timeline to it. I like to make it annual so, and really what it says is, you know, “At Veranda Dentistry we will x.” So your x is your goal, it could be we will add an associate, it could be we will expand to 14 operatories, or it could be we will hit 2.8 million in top line production, whatever your goal is, you assign in the x, and then you put the by y. So the by y is your deadline that gives you your heart date with which you must achieve that particular goal and then the because so it’s x by y because of z and the Z part is the actual heart. This is where I think BMS accelerates far beyond the other. The other methods that I’ve tried in the past because he gets down into the philosophical reason of why it actually matters. So I just heard somewhere, I think it was like a 1970, I can’t remember, I should pull this because whenever I say I can’t remember, it’s going to take the credibility away from it, but I heard something about they’re having a discussion at the Federal Reserve Level and they and they, they declared that the most important thing a business can do is make profit, like that would be the controlling idea for businesses moving forward in the United States and that’s probably great for a business owner who can partake in it and it’s and it’s great if they pay the employees well, and it all works out really, really well. But on the surface that is a data-driven point that has nothing to do with the motion. So for us to say we want to be profitable is fantastic. Why? Why is that important? You have to give me a reason as an employee to show up every day and want to contribute to this mission, typically, and this is what BMS really teaches us people want to play a role that makes a difference in a way that’s bigger than themselves. So they want to inherently make the world a better place and they want to play a part in that. So why does that matter? And healthcare makes that a little bit easier since we’re in the business of helping people transform and become better versions of themselves, but why does it matter? So that’s your Z part in the mission statement. So we look at mission statements differently and then in order to, like I said, keep it memorable and work through the story brand framework, we have to talk about the behaviors that will get us to that goal. So, so the BMS metric has it set up its key characteristics, you might call it core values. So I like to think about it as really behaviors, what do we want people to show up and how do we want them to behave? In order to make that mission possible? Yes. So we can talk and not to do five. So don’t don’t do five, don’t do 10, don’t do too many keep it down to three. Yeah and if you can keep it to three, it’s easy to remind ourselves, because the brain neurologically remembers three, so much better, it can remember five, but three is like the brain’s sweet spot. So PDAs, we have three key characteristics. It is being knowledgeable, being relationship driven, and being responsive, and we rank them in order so that we can make our decisions better. So for example, should an emergency arise, the very first thing I have to go on as a team member within PDA is, do I have all the knowledge in this situation? Do I know everything that I can? It stops me from reacting, and it forces me to go into open curiosity and emergency has happened. Do I have all the knowledge necessary to make a decision? And then the second piece of it is relationship-driven. So we can tend to get really compliance driven and that can shut down relationships and so the second piece is, am I being in relationship with this situation? Am I in a good headspace for it? And then once I have those two things together, I can be responsive and I can make a good decision. So that’s what key characteristics are and that course goes through and teaches you that and then it funnels down from there. It gives you critical daily actions that you can do every single day. So Chad, I know you’re a happy man, if you get to have some physical time somewhere, so if you’re biking or if you’re swimming, or if you’re doing something where you’re connecting with your body, when I interact with you, if you have done that, you seem calmer, you seem more focused, you seem happier, right? So that to me, if I was drawing up like Chad’s dreamless, I would probably put some physical activity as a daily action for you. Right?

Dr. Chad Johnson 20:27
And perhaps barbecue. I’m just saying, which is also physical. I mean, you know, it

Regan 20:31
It makes you very happy. Well, yeah.

Dr. Chad Johnson 20:35
Well, yeah. So the EOS model has a wheel, if you can imagine, and I suppose if you went to Google Images, you could, you know, look up the EOS model and they call it six key components, that of any business that must be managed, and strengthened to be a great business. So you were talking about the different parts of the plane and what’s interesting is you could have a huge gas tank and if your wings don’t support it, then you know, the plane isn’t going to fly. Right. So as the scale, you know, it does, right. I mean, I doubt any small business would have a problem of a cashflow of $6 trillion, you know, that that might not be as big of a problem as but you know, within reason, it’s tough to have our government, right. 6 trillion, wait till we hit 60 trillion Wow.

Regan 21:32
And money seems to grow on trees for them,

Dr. Chad Johnson 21:34
Right and then we

Regan 21:35
I digressed.

Dr. Chad Johnson 21:35
Right? So on the wheel, here are the main things of the wheel vision, number one, data, in which what I loved about Productive Dentist Academy was that they helped you focus on the data, you know, like, you go back to 2013, and there was the monthly board of, you know, what, what dentist was producing what per hour you enter in the data of what your collections were, and then you know, like, how many new patients and then you sent in the Excel file? And, you know, stuff like that. So you were looking at the data, because you’ve got to know, you know, those those data points to be able to make decisions. Next process, you know, is it? Is the process followed by all the employees and is it documented, like the process so, and not down to, you know, deterministic mechanisms of, you know, you must take six steps to the door, and then turn the door clockwise 45 degrees and then open the door, you know, but like, Do you have something you know, that’s, that’s somewhat granular to explain the process? Next is traction, having rocks and having a meeting pulse. Meeting pulse, had to do with leadership team, we meet once a week, it’s the same time every week, we actually meet one to one o’clock on Mondays, once a week and you make those meetings unless you’re on vacation, or on your deathbed, or, you know, some good excuse not to, but just not any old excuse. We also have a meeting with our team regarding EOS, statistics and whatnot. once a quarter, I, as the President of the company in the visionary, cast the vision by giving a state of the company address, and we do that over lunch, we celebrate once a quarter, did we hit our you know, goals or not and what progress did we make as a business? What obstacles did we face and or possibly overcome? That kind of stuff. So we have a quarterly meeting with the team at large with our leadership team weekly meeting and that’s to hold us accountable. There’s a way that the meeting goes, you know, so again, this is really tough to explain real quickly, you know, to you as listeners, but I’m just giving you an overview. Next we have vision, data process, traction, and issues. Issues are you know, you list your issues, and then you go through and you IDS them, you identify them, discuss them and solve them. You do it three at a time, like you said with three. So you just go out of this list of 20 issues, what are the top three that are keeping us from hitting those goals? Let’s talk about them. Let’s solve it by having an action plan of to-do list, you know, so that way next week you’re doing that or whatever, you’re smiling, you got a thought?

Regan 24:26
Because you almost need both. I’m just thinking about how I’ve applied these over the years. If you don’t if you don’t have enough structure, this is a good way I think that tractions strength is in the structure.

Dr. Chad Johnson 24:30
So yes.

Regan
So BMS does have management and productivity made simple. I have applied those here. So we have our daily huddles, and we switched our executive sessions over into the EOS style. So we do the IDS, we do the identity, we do the rocks, we we even have our headlines and so we use both and I think that, what I have noticed is that unless you’re super clear about who you are and where you’re going and why you’re going there, then it’s really only it’s only going to be applied as clear as you are. So you could if you try to put traction in, and you’re not really truly clear about it, and you’re kind of wishy-washy, like the worst place to be as a business owner is complacent and I have seen dentists who are complacent and that’s not necessarily a terrible thing. They’re making a good income, they seem okay. They’re just kind of coasting, right? But if you’re just coasting, and then you try to put traction in, and you’re not clear about where you’re going, I think your degree of success depends on that. Vice versa. I think if you’re super clear about where you are going, and you try to put in some of the other systems like that BMS has, for example, the management and productivity. I haven’t seen the same level of of success that I’ve heard from an EOS however, from the leadership standpoint, like the leadership cockpit, the marketing cockpit, the, those the sales cockpit, oh, my gosh, clarification, clarification, clarification, it takes sales out of the communication entirely. Incredibly, I mean, it links up with PDAs methodology for how you communicate with patients to an absolute tee, you’re in relationships. So it’s all about strengthening the relationship components of it. So I actually think you can successfully use both together, which I was wanting to do or throw down and pin them against each other, but now I’m hearing you say that I’m seeing how I use this in our in, our own and then to throw it in. I don’t know how traction handles cash flow, but Donald Miller I can tell he’s definitely paired up. Okay. He has clearly paired up with Mike Michalowicz who does profit? Yes and then I can’t remember her name Barbara Stackhouse, I think “Profit First for Dentists.” So she has a book out there that does that and you can tell he so in the cashflow, it just basically tells you you know, here you get your five accounts set up, you get your operating account, personal checking account, tax account, your business profit account, your investment holding account, and I just did a webinar with Ryan Isaac, of dentist advisors and I bet if you go through our social media, you guys can find that it’s also incredible because it gives the dentist advisors formula, which I think elementals Yeah, it gets it pulls a bit from, from that as well and it’s not the Dave Ramsey model. So it’s not you know, all debt is bad model, but it talks about how, how he specifically successful dentists set up their, their structure, I guess, or their framework as well. So So yeah, so and then there’s a negotiation made simple in the leadership section as well, which he’s, he teamed up. Oh, you haven’t?

Dr Chad Johnson 27:49
No

Regan 27:50
Oh, I need to get you access. It’s I believe it was an FBI negotiator that runs the course. So it’s not Donald that runs the course, but it helps you. It’s a different way of having Crucial Conversations. So again, I like the, I like the leading of the emotion and then managing it with a really strong dataset and structure behind it. So really, though, ultimately, for BMS, all of it boils down to the book you gave me years ago that started my journey, which was the building a brand story, and it is the seven-step framework. So it is what what do you want? What does your patient want? What does your team want? You can apply this, it’s like Donald realize you can apply this in every single element of your business and that’s really this core hub is, what did they want? What problems are they experiencing? How does the problem make them feel? Why is it unfair? Who can guide you in the process? So you’re not alone, no, no business owners alone. So who’s your trusted advisor that can help put together a three-step plan for you? And this is where I think traction comes in. This is where I think we start to see that link in. So where does the plan come in and then how do you put the structure to that plan? That’s where I see the meeting structure coming in the identifying of the milestones being really clear about who owns what, that’s why I love BMS.

Dr. Chad Johnson 29:01
And almost to a point of over-clarification, sometimes like if it’s just like if you as a leader feel like you’ve given the message before about what you’re about and everything like that, it’s probably still not enough because occasionally, you need to make sure that the team has heard it and heard it and heard it. So I’ll tell you the last thing is people, right people, right seats, you know, and that’s a big EOS thing traction thing you know, do you have the right people and so it almost like it’s the bus you know, kind of thing you know, are the

Regan 29:33
What are the, what type of tools distract his traction have for that?

Dr. Chad Johnson 29:36
Okay, so then it goes back to full, you know, those six things, it goes back to the first thing and the of the circle with vision is once you’ve established your, your core values, then you hire and fire on those core values, and you incentivize on those core values. So ours are a core. We have five core values, yeah. attentive, compassionate, optimistic, reliable, efficient, and those spell a core value Funny enough, we didn’t plan it that way.

Regan 30:08
I know it happened. I love your values.

Dr. Chad Johnson 30:11
I know it’s amazing like that somehow in a real way ended up that way.

Regan 30:20
Encore is not a word, it’s not a word.

Dr. Chad Johnson 30:21
No but a core value. Yeah, like, Ah, I’m sorry if it’s a little. I’m sorry if it’s a corny joke.

Regan 30:26
Well, so BMS and traction are like linked at the hip for this because that’s exactly how you identify the controlling idea of the actual role. So what it takes to accomplish the role and you pair it with your key characteristics and your daily actions. So you manage to the daily actions that’s like your, your touch base, but the behavioral elements, which are your core values, the court. So listen, when you hear a core, you said what was the first one attentive?

Dr. Chad Johnson 30:40
Attentive,

Regan 30:40
Attentive is a fantastic key characteristics. At random dentistry, we are attentive, yes, then what BMS has helped me do is put definition to it. And I don’t know that traction helps you define it, maybe it does. But it’s really important to say what that means to you. Because attentive to you might not be the same way I define attentive. And that’s where

Dr. Chad Johnson 31:11
My PDA coach Joanne brought in that you guys should should codify a code of ethics based off of your core values. So we now have a subcategory of listed, you know, like, so what does a 10 have mean? Here are the four things that we’ve all agreed upon. That being attentive means so it brings more clarity to that, again, it’s over, if possible, over clarification. So

Regan 31:38
Clarify, clarify, that is that is the job of a leader.

Dr. Chad Johnson 31:41
So if you as the listener have a question regarding any of this stuff, BMS Eos, all these ABC letters and stuff like that, feel free to comment on our Facebook page, or to give us a shout out, you know, personally regan@productivedentist.com, R, E, G, A, N, and chad@productivedentist.com. We’d love to hear from you. I think that should give us a natural pause for the podcast. And just for reference, we are still going through books. So we’ll be hitting up another book, you know, and it depends on the order. So I won’t say you know, which book but Ragan knows it’s the inner game of tennis. Oh, you know, but who knows what the next one will be? Regan thanks for joining me and talking the stuff through. It’s, this is kind of cool to actually not have to go head to head but just to see actually the similarities.

Regan 32:32
I agree. Absolutely. Great episode. Thank you, everyone, for listening. and thank you, Chad, for being the best co-host.

Dr. Chad Johnson 32:35
Oh, you bet. Gotcha.

Regan 32:36
Thank you for listening to another episode of Everyday Practices Podcast. Chad and I are here every week. Thanks to our community of listeners just like you and we’d love your help. It would mean the world if you can help spread the word by sharing this episode with a fellow dentist and leave us a review on iTunes or Spotify. Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share or feedback on how we can make this podcast even more awesome. Drop us an email at podcast at productivedentist.com and don’t forget to check out our other podcasts from Productive Dentist Academy at productivedentist.com/podcasts See you next week.